|
Post by trophies4all on Feb 18, 2024 10:48:19 GMT -5
1. I'm just gonna go out and say it...I think I counted around 6+ girls who qualified to the 1a-3a states this year. I think a girl placed in 3A too. I get it, girls have it tough and they need to wrestle. However, in no way should a girl qualify in a guys state tournament. This shows just how watered down the Virginia state tournament is. 3 classes at the minimum. The same as a guy shouldn't compete in a girls state tournament. It's just silly when you think about a hand to hand sport like wrestling.
2. Refs again? Why no consistency in scoring/calling stalls and stalemates. Examples: - Locked hand on nearside cradle from Poquoson. 2nd ref never even looked.
- 106 Semi's...Did RR get the 2? Look it up and you all decide. Seemed controversial.
-120 semi's. Grundy had zero shots against GC. Not a single stall call. GC took at least 10 and pushed the pace. Grundy rode double legs the whole time on top. - 106 Finals. Good Match. Poquoson wasn't pinned at all. Can't fault the JR kid, however, that was NOT a pin. Terrible call by the official. JR kid now has 2 asterisks along with his 2 titles. Both years refs has favored JR 106 kid.
-The same thing happed to the Union/Central match at I think 157/165. Central was dominating. Ref was too much in that match.
3. 1A wrestling. Good lord. Some of those kids looked like they didn't even have headgear that fit. Grundy doesn't belong in 1A. It's embarrassing for them to be in 1A. I would try my best to get to 2 or 3A or petition for fewer classes. Bragging about winning a 20+ something title seems ridiculous when you're facing kids who couldn't win local tournaments and end up in the finals of state.
|
|
|
Post by rollin on Feb 18, 2024 11:28:11 GMT -5
I’ll take the bait.
1 Female wrestling is growing and the ladies are getting better. It’s not an uncommon occurrence to have a tough female wrestler beat a state qualifier or even a state place winner of the opposite sex. I would agree that the sport should be separated into two sports instead of a true physical battle of the sexes.
2 Hack on refs? The state tournaments are the toughest tournaments for officials to call. Everyone wants to blame the ref for their losses. Call Stalling, he called the pin too fast and they missed a locking hands call is really pretty petty. Sour grapes! Take care of it on the mat and take it out of the officials hands. I honestly thought this years Salem refs did a good job. (They tried to stay out of the match). I didn’t see anything where the refs made calls to decide the matches, they let the wrestlers decide it.
3 Grundy winning 27 state titles and being proud of their accomplishments. Grundy has 350 kids in their high school. In Virginia, we compete for state titles based on enrollment. It’s called a level playing field. Grundy has , for many years, completed nationally and on the all class state level throughput the wrestling season. However, when it’s state tournament time, they compete against other schools with similar enrollment. Don’t get me wrong, I think this years Grundy team could have won 4 of the other class state titles, it really wouldn’t be fair to them or their competitors to play up a couple of divisions with less than half the enrollment of class 2 schools.
I would like to throw out something I thought was areal problem. The VHSL only allotted 1000 2-day passes. So, most fans had to pay for two one day passes. I think it went up from $25 to $40 per person. This is bad. It’s at minimum poor planning and at maximum it’s price gouging! I realize you have a monopoly. I realize we are always at the mercy of your “committees” decisions. But to charge parents $40 to watch their kid compete is ridiculous! Salem is a great location. It’s central to the majority of class 1-3 schools. Other than security, that nobody is ever happy with, I think they do a good job.
|
|
|
Post by chrisrowe on Feb 18, 2024 12:00:31 GMT -5
I’ve come to respect that there are many hard working girls that are well qualified and damn good to beat up the boys. At WSAZ, there was a girl who was runner up at 106 - she would have beaten any 106 kids wrestled in Salem this week. She is that good.
I agree that SQ should be tougher league to get in, but to assume more girls mean less qualified wrestlers getting in is a mistake.
|
|
|
Post by trophies4all on Feb 18, 2024 12:01:32 GMT -5
I’ll take the bait. 1 Female wrestling is growing and the ladies are getting better. It’s not an uncommon occurrence to have a tough female wrestler beat a state qualifier or even a state place winner of the opposite sex. I would agree that the sport should be separated into two sports instead of a true physical battle of the sexes. 2 Hack on refs? The state tournaments are the toughest tournaments for officials to call. Everyone wants to blame the ref for their losses. Call Stalling, he called the pin too fast and they missed a locking hands call is really pretty petty. Sour grapes! Take care of it on the mat and take it out of the officials hands. I honestly thought this years Salem refs did a good job. (They tried to stay out of the match). I didn’t see anything where the refs made calls to decide the matches, they let the wrestlers decide it. 3 Grundy winning 27 state titles and being proud of their accomplishments. Grundy has 350 kids in their high school. In Virginia, we compete for state titles based on enrollment. It’s called a level playing field. Grundy has , for many years, completed nationally and on the all class state level throughput the wrestling season. However, when it’s state tournament time, they compete against other schools with similar enrollment. Don’t get me wrong, I think this years Grundy team could have won 4 of the other class state titles, it really wouldn’t be fair to them or their competitors to play up a couple of divisions with less than half the enrollment of class 2 schools. I would like to throw out something I thought was areal problem. The VHSL only allotted 1000 2-day passes. So, most fans had to pay for two one day passes. I think it went up from $25 to $40 per person. This is bad. It’s at minimum poor planning and at maximum it’s price gouging! I realize you have a monopoly. I realize we are always at the mercy of your “committees” decisions. But to charge parents $40 to watch their kid compete is ridiculous! Salem is a great location. It’s central to the majority of class 1-3 schools. Other than security, that nobody is ever happy with, I think they do a good job. Passes were a HUGE problem. VHSL needs to do better. Overall the refs were better than last year. I'll give you that. That's improvement.
|
|
|
Post by trophies4all on Feb 18, 2024 12:06:04 GMT -5
I’ve come to respect that there are many hard working girls that are well qualified and damn good to beat up the boys. At WSAZ, there was a girl who was runner up at 106 - she would have beaten any 106 kids wrestled in Salem this week. She is that good. I agree that SQ should be tougher league to get in, but to assume more girls mean less qualified wrestlers getting in is a mistake. I get it...but from the outside looking in, it seems insane. No other sport has this. Shouldn't happen. We keep seeing this in lightweights, now do anything above 132.
|
|
|
Post by penwright on Feb 18, 2024 12:51:22 GMT -5
1. I'm just gonna go out and say it...I think I counted around 6+ girls who qualified to the 1a-3a states this year. I think a girl placed in 3A too. I get it, girls have it tough and they need to wrestle. However, in no way should a girl qualify in a guys state tournament. This shows just how watered down the Virginia state tournament is. 3 classes at the minimum. The same as a guy shouldn't compete in a girls state tournament. It's just silly when you think about a hand to hand sport like wrestling. 2. Refs again? Why no consistency in scoring/calling stalls and stalemates. Examples: - Locked hand on nearside cradle from Poquoson. 2nd ref never even looked.
- 106 Semi's...Did RR get the 2? Look it up and you all decide. Seemed controversial.
-120 semi's. Grundy had zero shots against GC. Not a single stall call. GC took at least 10 and pushed the pace. Grundy rode double legs the whole time on top. - 106 Finals. Good Match. Poquoson wasn't pinned at all. Can't fault the JR kid, however, that was NOT a pin. Terrible call by the official. JR kid now has 2 asterisks along with his 2 titles. Both years refs has favored JR 106 kid.
-The same thing happed to the Union/Central match at I think 157/165. Central was dominating. Ref was too much in that match.
3. 1A wrestling. Good lord. Some of those kids looked like they didn't even have headgear that fit. Grundy doesn't belong in 1A. It's embarrassing for them to be in 1A. I would try my best to get to 2 or 3A or petition for fewer classes. Bragging about winning a 20+ something title seems ridiculous when you're facing kids who couldn't win local tournaments and end up in the finals of state. We have a girl in our room that holds her own to the boys every where we go. We don't pick and choose easy match ups like a lot of programs do so they can seed well or brag about 100 wins, our teams performance shows that. She holds herself and her teammates accountable and she chases elite competition all over the country. I don't think you can lump all the females into one basket. But I understand your concern. As for the ref consistency it was much better than years past. They are only human and you must always leave no doubts. Remove that tool from the refs hands and the question goes away. There is clearly favorable match ups where consistency fluctuates. But if you remove that question there is no excuse. I watched several kids advancements on my team as well as others get ripped from their hands by questionable calls. It's part of it. What concerned me was the unsportsmanlike conduct calls I watched refs call very minor things against one kid and the very same ref allow the absolute definition of unsportsmanlike conduct by other kids. Same as the stall, quick pin. They are human I don't want to do it and obviously so many others don't want to either because people are not standing in lines to officiate. It does suck when you know questionable things won't go in certain wrestlers favor just because of a particular ref. The key to it is don't let that be the deciding factor. With success comes hate. People will always throw shade on the ones in the spotlight.
|
|
jr
Full Member
Posts: 245
|
Post by jr on Feb 18, 2024 13:37:22 GMT -5
The refs were much better than in previous years. Did they make mistakes yes, but I thought the 2 ref system has improved and helped the overall quality. Now there were plenty of parents that think they know wrestling, but don't know and one parent next to us was screaming "he is pinned" next to us when the opponent's shoulder was several inches off the mat.
I thought the tournament was well run and the yellow jackets were more laid back this year than ever before. The fans also were mostly well behaved, however on day 2 a woman did go after 2 other women in the stands. Some fans wrongly assumed that our fans were at fault and were getting kicked out which was not true. I really don't understand how the police can put handcuffs on a parent that goes over a rail and hugs his son (last year), but when someone kicks another person in the back and uses their pocketbook as a weapon they don't handcuff anyone. There were witnesses to this and marks were present.
As far as the finals in 2A the Poquoson kid was spraddled and his head was well up so physics tells me his shoulder blades had to be down, but I could not tell for sure 100%. I doubt anyone could tell for sure from the stands. To say it was good match seems off as well as the James River wrestler was dominating and had earned 2 sets of back points already. Last year he cradled and pinned the kid in finals everyone saw it. There are no asterisks on either of these 2 wins. There should be discussion about the Poquoson kid being such a poor loser pushing not once but at least twice. Their 120 was also punching and kicking kids in matches and I heard he tried to go up in stands after someone though I didn't see that happen. Seems like a trend for some Poquoson wrestlers.
I agree on the 1000 2 day passes. That is pure greed bu the VHSL.
|
|
|
Post by wrestlinggods on Feb 18, 2024 16:05:48 GMT -5
Also family members should not be reffing matches in the same division as the kid competes period. He just be upset that his nephew got destroyed in a match and try to play a part in the outcome etc. That’s a very bad look.
|
|
|
Post by swvawatcher on Feb 18, 2024 16:08:32 GMT -5
The refs were much better than in previous years. Did they make mistakes yes, but I thought the 2 ref system has improved and helped the overall quality. Now there were plenty of parents that think they know wrestling, but don't know and one parent next to us was screaming "he is pinned" next to us when the opponent's shoulder was several inches off the mat. I thought the tournament was well run and the yellow jackets were more laid back this year than ever before. The fans also were mostly well behaved, however on day 2 a woman did go after 2 other women in the stands. Some fans wrongly assumed that our fans were at fault and were getting kicked out which was not true. I really don't understand how the police can put handcuffs on a parent that goes over a rail and hugs his son (last year), but when someone kicks another person in the back and uses their pocketbook as a weapon they don't handcuff anyone. There were witnesses to this and marks were present. As far as the finals in 2A the Poquoson kid was spraddled and his head was well up so physics tells me his shoulder blades had to be down, but I could not tell for sure 100%. I doubt anyone could tell for sure from the stands. To say it was good match seems off as well as the James River wrestler was dominating and had earned 2 sets of back points already. Last year he cradled and pinned the kid in finals everyone saw it. There are no asterisks on either of these 2 wins. There should be discussion about the Poquoson kid being such a poor loser pushing not once but at least twice. Their 120 was also punching and kicking kids in matches and I heard he tried to go up in stands after someone though I didn't see that happen. Seems like a trend for some Poquoson wrestlers. I agree on the 1000 2 day passes. That is pure greed bu the VHSL. You could visibly/ audibly hear the kid talking smack on the podium as well. Venue sucks. It’s old and outdated. No warm up mat, no hospitality, one concession stand. It’s easily the worst run tournament we attend all year. Females doing well at 120 and lower shows the lack of depth. It’s encouraging to see duals have matches instead of forfeits though, so please keep encouraging more of it.
|
|
|
Post by 3arankings on Feb 18, 2024 16:22:11 GMT -5
I’ve come to respect that there are many hard working girls that are well qualified and damn good to beat up the boys. At WSAZ, there was a girl who was runner up at 106 - she would have beaten any 106 kids wrestled in Salem this week. She is that good. I agree that SQ should be tougher league to get in, but to assume more girls mean less qualified wrestlers getting in is a mistake. Man, she was something, wasn't she? I'd question if any 113 pounders in the building would have beaten her as well. Y'all need to respect these ladies, if they're that awful, help your local team produce kids to beat them.
|
|
|
Post by cradlemaker on Feb 18, 2024 17:32:13 GMT -5
Girls wrestling is growing rapidly. Many are very talented, so to say they are weak and boys in lower weight classes are also weak because girls do well makes you sound like a buffoon.
Salem Civic center is a mediocre venue. Many issues one of our team complaints is the lack of health food options. Who wants to eat grease all weekend and then sit in uncomfortable chairs. Roanoke Civic Center is slightly better could be an option.
Refs were significantly better than last year.
It’s great to see the rankings mean absolutely nothing and that many predictions were not correct.
I had hoped to see Forbes take the 120 title. Kid is built like a brick $hithouse. He made a mistake letting Owsley up and giving him a point. Should have stayed on bottom.
|
|
|
Post by cavfan on Feb 18, 2024 19:19:29 GMT -5
As far as the finals in 2A the Poquoson kid was spraddled and his head was well up so physics tells me his shoulder blades had to be down, but I could not tell for sure 100%. I doubt anyone could tell for sure from the stands. To say it was good match seems off as well as the James River wrestler was dominating and had earned 2 sets of back points already. Last year he cradled and pinned the kid in finals everyone saw it. There are no asterisks on either of these 2 wins. There should be discussion about the Poquoson kid being such a poor loser pushing not once but at least twice. Their 120 was also punching and kicking kids in matches and I heard he tried to go up in stands after someone though I didn't see that happen. Seems like a trend for some Poquoson wrestlers. I agree on the 1000 2 day passes. That is pure greed bu the VHSL. As far as the pin goes, I was one that of the fans who yelled he wasn't pinned. I went back and looked at the replay on Flo and judging from Wynn's body position I agree, Harrell shoulder blades were most likely touching. As far as the poor sportsmanship, it was way over the top. Watching the replay the Poquoson coaches didn't seem to mind. They just sat in their coaching chairs. Add in the fact that Withrow was out of control after his loss and it seems it may be a problem with the program. VHSL rules state that a player ejected from a basketball game has to sit out two events. I think the same kind of repercussions should be applied here. They both should be out 2 tournaments next year. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by faded87t on Feb 18, 2024 19:51:37 GMT -5
I don't have a dog in this fight, but if you watch the winner after the spladle he did bump the Poquoson kid on the way back to center. Add in all the showboating and smack talking afterwards (and likely before/during) and it's no surprise why Harrell was less than composed. Not condoning his behavior, but I get it, he seemed provoked - I say equal blame on both sides.
|
|
|
Post by wrestlinggods on Feb 18, 2024 20:01:42 GMT -5
As far as the finals in 2A the Poquoson kid was spraddled and his head was well up so physics tells me his shoulder blades had to be down, but I could not tell for sure 100%. I doubt anyone could tell for sure from the stands. To say it was good match seems off as well as the James River wrestler was dominating and had earned 2 sets of back points already. Last year he cradled and pinned the kid in finals everyone saw it. There are no asterisks on either of these 2 wins. There should be discussion about the Poquoson kid being such a poor loser pushing not once but at least twice. Their 120 was also punching and kicking kids in matches and I heard he tried to go up in stands after someone though I didn't see that happen. Seems like a trend for some Poquoson wrestlers. I agree on the 1000 2 day passes. That is pure greed bu the VHSL. As far as the pin goes, I was one that of the fans who yelled he wasn't pinned. I went back and looked at the replay on Flo and judging from Wynn's body position I agree, Harrell shoulder blades were most likely touching. As far as the poor sportsmanship, it was way over the top. Watching the replay the Poquoson coaches didn't seem to mind. They just sat in their coaching chairs. Add in the fact that Withrow was out of control after his loss and it seems it may be a problem with the program. VHSL rules state that a player ejected from a basketball game has to sit out two events. I think the same kind of repercussions should be applied here. They both should be out 2 tournaments next year. Thoughts? A problem with the program? Who should have to set out? Did you see how the James River kid provoked him. I think all party’s involved acted inappropriately.
|
|
|
Post by cavfan on Feb 18, 2024 20:02:09 GMT -5
I don't have a dog in this fight, but if you watch the winner after the spladle he did bump the Poquoson kid on the way back to center. Add in all the showboating and smack talking afterwards (and likely before/during) and it's no surprise why Harrell was less than composed. Not condoning his behavior, but I get it, he seemed provoked - I say equal blame on both sides. I saw that too. Wynn provoked it. It was also the JR fans/mom's who rushed up the stairs to argue with other fans. I love the passion and intensity of the sport but adults need to set a good example. I'm not a fan of Austin De'santo or AJ Ferrari type wrestlers.
|
|