jr
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Posts: 245
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Post by jr on Feb 19, 2024 16:03:23 GMT -5
Ok. I understand the problem you are trying to fix now. You believe VA kids are not able to compete/get recruited nationally because lack of competition in VA itself. The hypothesis is current 6 class system waters down competition and the top-tier kids don't get to wrestle each other to keep them sharp. It's possible that 6 class has something to do with that. But I got to tell you, back in the old days when Christiansburg dominated, they travelled everywhere to compete. That's how that they got so good. With many high level competitions offered year round these days, I'm not sure consolidation of classes is the only way to go. Instead, why don't VAWA set up RTCs, say Fairfax, Richmond, VA Beach, Roanoke. VAWA provides elite level coaching and live wrestling once a week. The athletes who are eligible to participate need to place in top 3 at states. Don't you think this is a better way to prepare top tier VA kids to compete nationally? I like this idea. Don't think it will ever happen, but I like it. There is such a place already in Christiansburg. It's called Machine Shed. The coaches are former Iowa and VT wrestlers. There have been VT AA's come and run clinics. Kids come from hours away to get technique and live wrestling with other elite wrestlers.
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jr
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Post by jr on Feb 19, 2024 16:09:46 GMT -5
It's time to offer up completely unrealistic solutions to our problems with VHSL post-season: dual team states, super states, seeding for states, etc. So, here goes ... I think we should adopt a tier system like they have in English pro football. Honestly, I don't know anything about it except what I gleaned from Ted Lasso, but I'll try to describe it. There is a hierarchy of leagues. Bad teams are in a league with other bad teams, middling teams with middling teams, elite teams with elite teams. However, your team can move up a league or down a league depending on your performance. So, take Staunton River: they have been a middling team for years, but have recently made strides. In this case, SR would move leagues next year. On the other hand, a team like Colonial Forge would have been demoted a couple of years ago when they started to slide. Implimentation: we could just use the current 6-class system and start moving teams accordingly. 6A would be the elite schools and 1A the lowest league. However, I think fewer leagues would be better, maybe 3 or 4. Objections: 1. Obviously, there could be elite wrestlers on average/bad teams. Response: Sure, but something akin already happens, e.g. Grundy has some solid individuals who have a less than challenging post-season. 2. Success at the elite league state tournament will depend more on a few elite individuals, while success in the lower leagues' state tournament will depend more on solid/mediocre dual teams. As a result,a mid-tier team with two Super-32 champs could find itself demoted and these elite wrestlers will be left out in the cold. Response: The criteria for moving leagues could take this into account, e.g. instead of just state team scores, maybe come up with some formula that puts a premium on state champs. So, this is the solution, and it should be adopted by the next time the VHSL governing body meets Great idea and I know PA does this with football. If a team starts dominating they are moved up and if they continue to dominate they are moved up again. Va really needs this with all the transfers and recruiting that is allowed.
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jr
Full Member
Posts: 245
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Post by jr on Feb 19, 2024 16:26:06 GMT -5
I'm going to say it... Anyone who is FOR the 6 classes is from Grundy and is trophy hunting and wants to just pump up their meaningless record of "we have the most state titles in the state". 6 Classes is TERRIBLE. Ask any college coach In VA. They don't come to states to recruit. They come bc its an obligation and they need to be there. I'm gunna fix this thing. Whether you like it or not Coaches were actively recruiting at the CLASS 1,2,3 tournament. I saw it and my wrestler had multiple approaches. Sure they want Super 32 champs and placers, but at the end of the day there are many divisions in colleges as well that need wrestlers to fill weights. Not that many offer actual wrestling scholarships. Many coaches are looking for certain types of styles, weights and other criteria that meet their objectives. To say coaches don't recruit at state is not correct.
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chemo
New Member
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Post by chemo on Feb 19, 2024 17:29:26 GMT -5
Mr Rollin...I don't know who you are. But you completely walked yourself in a circle there and became who you swore to destroy mid statment while calling me a "keyboard" warrior and mentioning my alma mater. While in fact I am the furthest thing. I may strategically use my keyboard - but I attempt invoke action. Objectively, more than any 30 year old in our states history has attempted to do. Whether you like my attempt at moving the needle, thats on you. In no way is a good for a team to win by more than DOUBLE the second place scoring team. I've never been a "lets boost my ego" guy but Im realistic. I am well aware I am abrasive but I speak the truth. Am I a person who beleives VA should be a 1 class state like california? Absolutely not. BUT I do recall back in the day when it was a 3 class system and christiansburg and grundy BATTLED...Grundy was sending guys to programs like Iowa. We haven't seen that sort of thing happen in VA in years. Maybe if we're lukcy we're getting roster spots at VT or UVA. BUT because our athletes do not experience that "iron sharpens iron" effect in our state 99% of our athletes cannot compete nationally. Look at the DATA! YOY we continue to do worse at in season national events like beast of the east, powerade, ironman, etc... Legacy is great...But I want a system that challenges our athletes. Whether my comments offend you...or inspire you...Thats OK! But I promise, I will not back down from attempting to be the change I wanted since I was a young boy in the stands watching my first state championship. I've now been to TWENTY state championships in my thirty years of life and this year inspired me to invoke change even further. Stay Tuned... Was Christiansburg a power because it was 3 classes or because Kevin Dresser was the coach?
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Post by rollin on Feb 19, 2024 17:39:00 GMT -5
Mr Rollin...I don't know who you are. But you completely walked yourself in a circle there and became who you swore to destroy mid statment while calling me a "keyboard" warrior and mentioning my alma mater. While in fact I am the furthest thing. I may strategically use my keyboard - but I attempt invoke action. Objectively, more than any 30 year old in our states history has attempted to do. Whether you like my attempt at moving the needle, thats on you. In no way is a good for a team to win by more than DOUBLE the second place scoring team. I've never been a "lets boost my ego" guy but Im realistic. I am well aware I am abrasive but I speak the truth. Am I a person who beleives VA should be a 1 class state like california? Absolutely not. BUT I do recall back in the day when it was a 3 class system and christiansburg and grundy BATTLED...Grundy was sending guys to programs like Iowa. We haven't seen that sort of thing happen in VA in years. Maybe if we're lukcy we're getting roster spots at VT or UVA. BUT because our athletes do not experience that "iron sharpens iron" effect in our state 99% of our athletes cannot compete nationally. Look at the DATA! YOY we continue to do worse at in season national events like beast of the east, powerade, ironman, etc... Legacy is great...But I want a system that challenges our athletes. Whether my comments offend you...or inspire you...Thats OK! But I promise, I will not back down from attempting to be the change I wanted since I was a young boy in the stands watching my first state championship. I've now been to TWENTY state championships in my thirty years of life and this year inspired me to invoke change even further. Stay Tuned... Was Christiansburg a power because it was 3 classes or because Kevin Dresser was the coach? I’d say because Dresser was the coach and JJ was sending his kids from New Jersey in. That always increases the number of national level talent. I know one won the Jr hodge trophy and another was a multiple time AA and national finalist. They did have Zack Epperly who went on th be a multiple time AA from Va and Dance moved in as a freshman and went on to 3 AA. But when you have that kind of coaching, depth in the room and access to big events, parents seek you out. I used to think it was a recruiting issue, but in all reality, kids want that opportunity and will try to get to a program if there is one available in a reasonable distance.
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Post by lowsingle on Feb 19, 2024 18:07:19 GMT -5
Mr Rollin...I don't know who you are. But you completely walked yourself in a circle there and became who you swore to destroy mid statment while calling me a "keyboard" warrior and mentioning my alma mater. While in fact I am the furthest thing. I may strategically use my keyboard - but I attempt invoke action. Objectively, more than any 30 year old in our states history has attempted to do. Whether you like my attempt at moving the needle, thats on you. In no way is a good for a team to win by more than DOUBLE the second place scoring team. I've never been a "lets boost my ego" guy but Im realistic. I am well aware I am abrasive but I speak the truth. Am I a person who beleives VA should be a 1 class state like california? Absolutely not. BUT I do recall back in the day when it was a 3 class system and christiansburg and grundy BATTLED...Grundy was sending guys to programs like Iowa. We haven't seen that sort of thing happen in VA in years. Maybe if we're lukcy we're getting roster spots at VT or UVA. BUT because our athletes do not experience that "iron sharpens iron" effect in our state 99% of our athletes cannot compete nationally. Look at the DATA! YOY we continue to do worse at in season national events like beast of the east, powerade, ironman, etc... Legacy is great...But I want a system that challenges our athletes. Whether my comments offend you...or inspire you...Thats OK! But I promise, I will not back down from attempting to be the change I wanted since I was a young boy in the stands watching my first state championship. I've now been to TWENTY state championships in my thirty years of life and this year inspired me to invoke change even further. Stay Tuned... First and foremost, congratulations on being 30! I’m glad you have attended several state tournaments. I don’t think you put much effort into any research into class 1 or 2. First, this year is an anomaly. Grundy has one of the best teams they have had in years. Proven by the Va Duals. Class 1 took a hit when Riverheads moved up to Class 2, I’m hearing they are coming back. With them Class 1 is as tough in the top 3 as Class 2 and some others as well. Grundy returns all but one and it’s gonna be similar results next year as well. Grundy, I’m assuming you don’t know, has a top 100 recruit in 2x Powerade Placewinner Wyatt Bush. He has several top programs in contact with him. So the idea “you won’t get recruited in class 1” is bull. Wrestlers in Virginia will always be recruited based solely on national level success. Nobody has ever been recruited for Virginia State Titles. You have an argument you are trying to justify with Grundy’s dominance. Well, just last season, they had a forfeit in the lineup. Common in small schools. That’s what you don’t understand coming from a population center. Smaller schools don’t have the athletes that the big school have and it’s not fair to penalize them for their enrollment. I probably shouldn’t have mentioned your alma mater, but you shouldn’t have mentioned Grundy! I hope as you grow up and continue to mature and you are able to keep this passion. I personally think the problem you are seeing is that club coaches get paid to coach talented kids. That takes them away from their team and programs. In turn in turn, the teams don’t have a leader in the program until season. Where before the team develops and grows from his leadership. I think pay coaches is really the downfall of the teams in Virginia. Now don’t get me wrong, it helps the individual to get elite coaching, but the idea of programs like during the GB and CB recruiting wars, is not possible unless a whole club transfers to one high school and then you have an assembled all star squad. There are a few programs that do still build ground up and Grundy is one of them. It’s just hard to build a program if you price kids out of the sport. So realistically, build Virginia Wrestling! Find a way to make tournaments free and make clubs free to anyone who wants instruction. Then you are moving in the right direction! Don't know how Riverheads can already be talked about moving back down when they have families moving in every year, on top of all the housing they have put up right next to their school. Funny how they lose 1 state championship in football, and now already trying to come back down. They took a hit in 2a with wrestling this year too, and it doesn't look any better for them for the next couple of years other than Cash.
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Post by vawrestler02 on Feb 19, 2024 20:00:42 GMT -5
Who cares if you have 10 kids on a roster or 50 kids on a roster. Theoretically, the smaller the room, the more personal attention each wrestler will get. If the coaches are worth their salt, then that should equate to better wrestlers, right? Why do you think club teams get so good? Small rooms with more technique training and more focus on individual wrestlers.
I'm sure someone will make the "talent" argument, and that is valid to a point. But hard work and good coaching go a long way in wrestling.
My original post had nothing to do with team championships, I personally don't care which schools take home team trophies. Just want to see a true representation of the wrestling in our state. Having 7 state champs doesn't achieve that at all.
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Post by penwright on Feb 19, 2024 20:25:46 GMT -5
Who cares if you have 10 kids on a roster or 50 kids on a roster. Theoretically, My original post had nothing to do with team championships, I personally don't care which schools take home team trophies. Just want to see a true representation of the wrestling in our state. Having 7 state champs doesn't achieve that at all. 50 kid teams care..... just means there are multiple kids competing for a starting spot vs kids being on a team of 10 who start no matter what. I'm not saying the 10 man team cant be great but there is a level of competition that simply doesn't exist in a smaller school.
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chemo
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by chemo on Feb 19, 2024 20:53:12 GMT -5
Who cares if you have 10 kids on a roster or 50 kids on a roster. Theoretically, the smaller the room, the more personal attention each wrestler will get. If the coaches are worth their salt, then that should equate to better wrestlers, right? Why do you think club teams get so good? Small rooms with more technique training and more focus on individual wrestlers. I'm sure someone will make the "talent" argument, and that is valid to a point. But hard work and good coaching go a long way in wrestling. My original post had nothing to do with team championships, I personally don't care which schools take home team trophies. Just want to see a true representation of the wrestling in our state. Having 7 state champs doesn't achieve that at all. I suspect many of the teams who have 10 wrestlers in the room don’t have coaches that are “worth their salt”. That’s part of the problem. I would bet the coach is probably a teacher who is just trying to keep a team from getting cut, which is awesome of them to do. But, they may not have much wrestling knowledge and that is not their fault. They are doing the best they can for their wrestlers. Hard work with limited coaching can only get you so far.
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Post by warriorswrestling on Feb 19, 2024 21:55:01 GMT -5
This was me when I started. Was told the team would get cut if they didn't get a coach and participation numbers didn't come up. I stepped in to save the team. I knew a double, a cow catcher, a bear hug, a sit out switch, and a half nelson when I first started to coach, although you will see my team do more than these moves now lol. It's still a struggle for me from a technical standpoint to read a situation and know how to solve it (although its much easier now a decade+ later). One of my wrestlers this past weekend got put in a situation I struggled to digest and had to ask another coach how to handle it. One thing people fail to remember is the availability of clubs or opportunities to wrestle. Not everyone has the demographics of money or travel to find great success. Top notch programs become top notch through feeder programs. Which top team does it through their HS program alone? My team was always 8-15 kids yearly until we started to find success consistently at the state level (and my abilities to coach increased). That consistency began shortly after the switch to 6 classes. This season. I finished with 35 kids on my active roster; 24 boys, 11 girls. I started off-season wrestling with my school 2 years before COVID and then it got shut down. Thankfully I was able to encourage and aid a former local stud to start up a club team locally that is doing AMAZING work post-covid and will eventually filter ready made wrestlers into the room like other programs get. Almost my entire program right now is made up of kids who don't know what wrestling is until they show up to practice (most think WWE) in the 9th, 10th, 11th and sometimes 12th grade. I have one kid, placed third this year, who I got into the room with me in the 4th grade. Other than that, everyone is a 1st or 2nd year kid on my team, I still blame COVID for this. We consistently have been putting a few kids here and there on the podium in placements 3-6, but until The GOAT House starts producing kids like other programs, we will be what we are. We have about 550 kids in our school, of which, about 50 could be considered athletes. We fight with basketball and swim for the best, and I can assure you, we rarely win those fights. Others spend their off-season training for soccer or baseball. So we take the best kids we can get and do the best we can with them, and we as the coaching staff love every minute of it. I can tell you stories of how this sport changed some of their lives for the best, and part of it was the attainable goal of making states. The "success" that my program has achieved over the past 5-7 years I partially attribute to the chances the kids have to "succeed" even in a watered down state tournament. We aren't a program looking to filter kids into colleges (yet), just one who are trying to teach the love of the sport, build memories and create the best young men and women we can. Call us what you will, but success can be found in other ways other than "getting kids to the next level". Now to contradict myself. I do complain all the time about how easy it is to make states. I complain about how watered down the tournament is. I come from NY. State had 15 sections plus private school champ. AAAA, AAA, AA, A all had their own sectional tournaments; top 4 placed and went to state qualifying tournament (16 man bracket). From there, only the winner went to the state tournament to represent your section. Only 1 state champ. Things have changed and they now have 2 and a bunch of other weirdo rules going on too. I am passionate, my wife will tell you obsessed. I see the benefits of the watered down system as it has opened up opportunities for kids to find love in a sport they've never even heard of or thought to try before. The chances for success has pulled F students to B/A students. It has pulled kids out of gang life and put them into careers like a paid EMT. It has taken kids off of the suspension list to the deans list. It has taken kids out of depression to being a social butterfly. We live and work in a poor community with social and economic issues galore. Call me a loser, my program a failure, disagree with me, I don't care. On a personal level it's helped so many more kids than it's hurt. I am thankful for the 6 class system as it's allowed us as a team to grow and reach kids who were unreachable before. I often wish it were harder to make states, it's often times embarrassing seeing some of the wrestling occurring at the state tournament. But if that happened today, while I hope it would, I am not sure my program would thrive in the same manner it does today. Who cares if you have 10 kids on a roster or 50 kids on a roster. Theoretically, the smaller the room, the more personal attention each wrestler will get. If the coaches are worth their salt, then that should equate to better wrestlers, right? Why do you think club teams get so good? Small rooms with more technique training and more focus on individual wrestlers. I'm sure someone will make the "talent" argument, and that is valid to a point. But hard work and good coaching go a long way in wrestling. My original post had nothing to do with team championships, I personally don't care which schools take home team trophies. Just want to see a true representation of the wrestling in our state. Having 7 state champs doesn't achieve that at all. I suspect many of the teams who have 10 wrestlers in the room don’t have coaches that are “worth their salt”. That’s part of the problem. I would bet the coach is probably a teacher who is just trying to keep a team from getting cut, which is awesome of them to do. But, they may not have much wrestling knowledge and that is not their fault. They are doing the best they can for their wrestlers. Hard work with limited coaching can only get you so far.
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Post by vawrestler02 on Feb 20, 2024 7:32:48 GMT -5
Who cares if you have 10 kids on a roster or 50 kids on a roster. Theoretically, My original post had nothing to do with team championships, I personally don't care which schools take home team trophies. Just want to see a true representation of the wrestling in our state. Having 7 state champs doesn't achieve that at all. 50 kid teams care..... just means there are multiple kids competing for a starting spot vs kids being on a team of 10 who start no matter what. I'm not saying the 10 man team cant be great but there is a level of competition that simply doesn't exist in a smaller school. The flipside of your argument is you have 36 sets of parents whining because their wrestlers got beat in wrestle-offs and placed on the JV team. Also, the room is over crowded and practices have to be dumbed down to match the skills of the room. I'd personally take 10-20 hyper focused kids over a room full of kids trying to add an extra curricular to their college app, or wrestling because they couldn't make the basketball team.
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Post by vawrestler02 on Feb 20, 2024 7:35:51 GMT -5
This was me when I started. Was told the team would get cut if they didn't get a coach and participation numbers didn't come up. I stepped in to save the team. I knew a double, a cow catcher, a bear hug, a sit out switch, and a half nelson when I first started to coach, although you will see my team do more than these moves now lol. It's still a struggle for me from a technical standpoint to read a situation and know how to solve it (although its much easier now a decade+ later). One of my wrestlers this past weekend got put in a situation I struggled to digest and had to ask another coach how to handle it. One thing people fail to remember is the availability of clubs or opportunities to wrestle. Not everyone has the demographics of money or travel to find great success. Top notch programs become top notch through feeder programs. Which top team does it through their HS program alone? My team was always 8-15 kids yearly until we started to find success consistently at the state level (and my abilities to coach increased). That consistency began shortly after the switch to 6 classes. This season. I finished with 35 kids on my active roster; 24 boys, 11 girls. I started off-season wrestling with my school 2 years before COVID and then it got shut down. Thankfully I was able to encourage and aid a former local stud to start up a club team locally that is doing AMAZING work post-covid and will eventually filter ready made wrestlers into the room like other programs get. Almost my entire program right now is made up of kids who don't know what wrestling is until they show up to practice (most think WWE) in the 9th, 10th, 11th and sometimes 12th grade. I have one kid, placed third this year, who I got into the room with me in the 4th grade. Other than that, everyone is a 1st or 2nd year kid on my team, I still blame COVID for this. We consistently have been putting a few kids here and there on the podium in placements 3-6, but until The GOAT House starts producing kids like other programs, we will be what we are. We have about 550 kids in our school, of which, about 50 could be considered athletes. We fight with basketball and swim for the best, and I can assure you, we rarely win those fights. Others spend their off-season training for soccer or baseball. So we take the best kids we can get and do the best we can with them, and we as the coaching staff love every minute of it. I can tell you stories of how this sport changed some of their lives for the best, and part of it was the attainable goal of making states. The "success" that my program has achieved over the past 5-7 years I partially attribute to the chances the kids have to "succeed" even in a watered down state tournament. We aren't a program looking to filter kids into colleges (yet), just one who are trying to teach the love of the sport, build memories and create the best young men and women we can. Call us what you will, but success can be found in other ways other than "getting kids to the next level". Now to contradict myself. I do complain all the time about how easy it is to make states. I complain about how watered down the tournament is. I come from NY. State had 15 sections plus private school champ. AAAA, AAA, AA, A all had their own sectional tournaments; top 4 placed and went to state qualifying tournament (16 man bracket). From there, only the winner went to the state tournament to represent your section. Only 1 state champ. Things have changed and they now have 2 and a bunch of other weirdo rules going on too. I am passionate, my wife will tell you obsessed. I see the benefits of the watered down system as it has opened up opportunities for kids to find love in a sport they've never even heard of or thought to try before. The chances for success has pulled F students to B/A students. It has pulled kids out of gang life and put them into careers like a paid EMT. It has taken kids off of the suspension list to the deans list. It has taken kids out of depression to being a social butterfly. We live and work in a poor community with social and economic issues galore. Call me a loser, my program a failure, disagree with me, I don't care. On a personal level it's helped so many more kids than it's hurt. I am thankful for the 6 class system as it's allowed us as a team to grow and reach kids who were unreachable before. I often wish it were harder to make states, it's often times embarrassing seeing some of the wrestling occurring at the state tournament. But if that happened today, while I hope it would, I am not sure my program would thrive in the same manner it does today. I suspect many of the teams who have 10 wrestlers in the room don’t have coaches that are “worth their salt”. That’s part of the problem. I would bet the coach is probably a teacher who is just trying to keep a team from getting cut, which is awesome of them to do. But, they may not have much wrestling knowledge and that is not their fault. They are doing the best they can for their wrestlers. Hard work with limited coaching can only get you so far. Coach, I don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from what you, or schools like yours are doing. If anything, it may help in the long run to get some recognition for those kids who can't afford travel/club etc. in the off season by making the state tourny more competitive and highly regarded. There is always a give/take.
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chemo
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by chemo on Feb 20, 2024 8:54:44 GMT -5
This was me when I started. Was told the team would get cut if they didn't get a coach and participation numbers didn't come up. I stepped in to save the team. I knew a double, a cow catcher, a bear hug, a sit out switch, and a half nelson when I first started to coach, although you will see my team do more than these moves now lol. It's still a struggle for me from a technical standpoint to read a situation and know how to solve it (although its much easier now a decade+ later). One of my wrestlers this past weekend got put in a situation I struggled to digest and had to ask another coach how to handle it. One thing people fail to remember is the availability of clubs or opportunities to wrestle. Not everyone has the demographics of money or travel to find great success. Top notch programs become top notch through feeder programs. Which top team does it through their HS program alone? My team was always 8-15 kids yearly until we started to find success consistently at the state level (and my abilities to coach increased). That consistency began shortly after the switch to 6 classes. This season. I finished with 35 kids on my active roster; 24 boys, 11 girls. I started off-season wrestling with my school 2 years before COVID and then it got shut down. Thankfully I was able to encourage and aid a former local stud to start up a club team locally that is doing AMAZING work post-covid and will eventually filter ready made wrestlers into the room like other programs get. Almost my entire program right now is made up of kids who don't know what wrestling is until they show up to practice (most think WWE) in the 9th, 10th, 11th and sometimes 12th grade. I have one kid, placed third this year, who I got into the room with me in the 4th grade. Other than that, everyone is a 1st or 2nd year kid on my team, I still blame COVID for this. We consistently have been putting a few kids here and there on the podium in placements 3-6, but until The GOAT House starts producing kids like other programs, we will be what we are. We have about 550 kids in our school, of which, about 50 could be considered athletes. We fight with basketball and swim for the best, and I can assure you, we rarely win those fights. Others spend their off-season training for soccer or baseball. So we take the best kids we can get and do the best we can with them, and we as the coaching staff love every minute of it. I can tell you stories of how this sport changed some of their lives for the best, and part of it was the attainable goal of making states. The "success" that my program has achieved over the past 5-7 years I partially attribute to the chances the kids have to "succeed" even in a watered down state tournament. We aren't a program looking to filter kids into colleges (yet), just one who are trying to teach the love of the sport, build memories and create the best young men and women we can. Call us what you will, but success can be found in other ways other than "getting kids to the next level". Now to contradict myself. I do complain all the time about how easy it is to make states. I complain about how watered down the tournament is. I come from NY. State had 15 sections plus private school champ. AAAA, AAA, AA, A all had their own sectional tournaments; top 4 placed and went to state qualifying tournament (16 man bracket). From there, only the winner went to the state tournament to represent your section. Only 1 state champ. Things have changed and they now have 2 and a bunch of other weirdo rules going on too. I am passionate, my wife will tell you obsessed. I see the benefits of the watered down system as it has opened up opportunities for kids to find love in a sport they've never even heard of or thought to try before. The chances for success has pulled F students to B/A students. It has pulled kids out of gang life and put them into careers like a paid EMT. It has taken kids off of the suspension list to the deans list. It has taken kids out of depression to being a social butterfly. We live and work in a poor community with social and economic issues galore. Call me a loser, my program a failure, disagree with me, I don't care. On a personal level it's helped so many more kids than it's hurt. I am thankful for the 6 class system as it's allowed us as a team to grow and reach kids who were unreachable before. I often wish it were harder to make states, it's often times embarrassing seeing some of the wrestling occurring at the state tournament. But if that happened today, while I hope it would, I am not sure my program would thrive in the same manner it does today. I suspect many of the teams who have 10 wrestlers in the room don’t have coaches that are “worth their salt”. That’s part of the problem. I would bet the coach is probably a teacher who is just trying to keep a team from getting cut, which is awesome of them to do. But, they may not have much wrestling knowledge and that is not their fault. They are doing the best they can for their wrestlers. Hard work with limited coaching can only get you so far. This is what high school athletics are supposed to be. You and your wrestlers should be proud.
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chemo
New Member
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Post by chemo on Feb 20, 2024 9:26:05 GMT -5
50 kid teams care..... just means there are multiple kids competing for a starting spot vs kids being on a team of 10 who start no matter what. I'm not saying the 10 man team cant be great but there is a level of competition that simply doesn't exist in a smaller school. The flipside of your argument is you have 36 sets of parents whining because their wrestlers got beat in wrestle-offs and placed on the JV team. Also, the room is over crowded and practices have to be dumbed down to match the skills of the room. I'd personally take 10-20 hyper focused kids over a room full of kids trying to add an extra curricular to their college app, or wrestling because they couldn't make the basketball team. High school sports, by definition, are extra-curricular. High school rooms should be welcoming first year wrestlers along with the state champs unless you want the sport to die. A room full of hyper-focused kids is more of a club mindset than a school mindset in my opinion. Our old school in PA promised a varsity letter (specifically for college application purposes) to any kid that completed the full year. The coach (who wrestled at Penn State under Cael) wanted kids in the room. You had first year wrestlers and state champion caliber wrestlers in the same room. One kid came out for the first time his senior year because he was hoping to go to a military college (ended up at VMI) and someone told him wrestling would help prepare him physically. He was a very good soccer player, but gave wrestling a try. He turned out to really enjoy it and ended up doing pretty well for a new guy. The coach commented that he wished he could have gotten him in the room earlier. And when that kid has kids of his own, there is a pretty good chance they will wrestle. There was another kid on that team who was awful. He knew it and everyone on the team knew it, but he was such a great kid the whole team loved him. He finally got a chance to wrestle a varsity match at a dual tournament against a team that was just starting their program. They had 3-4 wrestlers. The kid was actually able to win the match and you would have thought the team had just won states. They were that happy and supportive of the kid. It’s about more than state placements. The kids seem to understand that even if we adults sometimes forget it.
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Post by vawrestler02 on Feb 20, 2024 9:58:34 GMT -5
The flipside of your argument is you have 36 sets of parents whining because their wrestlers got beat in wrestle-offs and placed on the JV team. Also, the room is over crowded and practices have to be dumbed down to match the skills of the room. I'd personally take 10-20 hyper focused kids over a room full of kids trying to add an extra curricular to their college app, or wrestling because they couldn't make the basketball team. High school sports, by definition, are extra-curricular. High school rooms should be welcoming first year wrestlers along with the state champs unless you want the sport to die. A room full of hyper-focused kids is more of a club mindset than a school mindset in my opinion. Our old school in PA promised a varsity letter (specifically for college application purposes) to any kid that completed the full year. The coach (who wrestled at Penn State under Cael) wanted kids in the room. You had first year wrestlers and state champion caliber wrestlers in the same room. One kid came out for the first time his senior year because he was hoping to go to a military college (ended up at VMI) and someone told him wrestling would help prepare him physically. He was a very good soccer player, but gave wrestling a try. He turned out to really enjoy it and ended up doing pretty well for a new guy. The coach commented that he wished he could have gotten him in the room earlier. And when that kid has kids of his own, there is a pretty good chance they will wrestle. There was another kid on that team who was awful. He knew it and everyone on the team knew it, but he was such a great kid the whole team loved him. He finally got a chance to wrestle a varsity match at a dual tournament against a team that was just starting their program. They had 3-4 wrestlers. The kid was actually able to win the match and you would have thought the team had just won states. They were that happy and supportive of the kid. It’s about more than state placements. The kids seem to understand that even if we adults sometimes forget it. Obviously we will have to agree to disagree here. Seems like you're of the mindset that more bodies in the room is what's most important, and I'm of the mindset that the quality of the room is most important. Both have their merits and faults.
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