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Post by 3arankings on Feb 19, 2024 10:26:28 GMT -5
I'm going to say it... Anyone who is FOR the 6 classes is from Grundy and is trophy hunting and wants to just pump up their meaningless record of "we have the most state titles in the state". 6 Classes is TERRIBLE. Ask any college coach In VA. They don't come to states to recruit. They come bc its an obligation and they need to be there. I'm gunna fix this thing. Whether you like it or not I'd just like to throw out there that the people I know from Grundy don't want to be 1a. They stayed up for so long when they shouldn't have. They're going for the state scoring record probably because they need a goal.. keep kids motivated when they know they're going to win. But if you fix it, I would like it, lol.
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Post by pinseeker on Feb 19, 2024 11:33:16 GMT -5
Seems to me that parents who's kids placed 5th in 3a or 4a are pissed because their kid would have been a state champ in 1a. Get over it.
College coaches aren't giving out scholarships because a kid placed first in his 1a state championship. Kids are getting scholarships because of their ability at Powerade and Beast of the East and Super 32.
The state championships are meaningless except to compare skills against programs of like size. Some of these smaller schools barely have money for wrestling mats, most don't have a dedicated wrestling room and their coaches typically are less experienced.
Are these same haters just as mad because every member of the 1A Galax football team are sporting championship rings this year? Yes I agree that they would get smoked by the champions of the higher classes. Who cares? Get over yourselves. Why is it so bad for these kids and parents to take pride in their accomplishments.
In disclosure, I am affilaietd with a 5a school.
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Post by pinseeker on Feb 19, 2024 12:09:54 GMT -5
The Virginia Duals would be a great venue for determining the best team in Virginia with two simple revisions… 1) Eliminate out of state teams. 2) Condolidate three brackets into one large bracket.
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Post by rollin on Feb 19, 2024 13:03:31 GMT -5
I'm going to say it... Anyone who is FOR the 6 classes is from Grundy and is trophy hunting and wants to just pump up their meaningless record of "we have the most state titles in the state". 6 Classes is TERRIBLE. Ask any college coach In VA. They don't come to states to recruit. They come bc its an obligation and they need to be there. I'm gunna fix this thing. Whether you like it or not Christian, I am from Grundy. I do support the 6A system. I support the system because Grundy has 350 kids. In 2A, they have less than half the enrollment of their competition, when the VHSL is providing a level playing field. Everyone knows that state is not as hard to win as it was when there was 3 divisions. However, the only people why complain are the past wrestlers who want to become keyboard warriors to build up their past accomplishments. As for the kids today, this is a great system. You shouldn’t have to be a D1 recruit to win a state title. (It’s never been that deep in Virginia). I’ve never known of D1 coaches recruiting Va state. We have had D1 wrestlers, but they are proven vs National talent. Now I’m assuming you are trying to put together some kind of tournament like superstates. Well vac already does it. Some people attend, but the best don’t care about what you think matters. The best wrestlers will find the competition you are wanting throughout the season and wrestle on a level playing field in the post season. I understand it’s embarrassing to watch your alma mater lose to a class 1 team, but I don’t think bumping them up or hacking on their accomplishments is gonna help your ego. The truth is, like many on here has already stated, you don’t know anything about wrestling from a small area. Good luck in your endeavors, hopefully you find something positive for the sport without hacking on the best program in the history of Virginia!
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Post by jackwebster on Feb 19, 2024 13:18:45 GMT -5
It's time to offer up completely unrealistic solutions to our problems with VHSL post-season: dual team states, super states, seeding for states, etc. So, here goes ...
I think we should adopt a tier system like they have in English pro football. Honestly, I don't know anything about it except what I gleaned from Ted Lasso, but I'll try to describe it. There is a hierarchy of leagues. Bad teams are in a league with other bad teams, middling teams with middling teams, elite teams with elite teams. However, your team can move up a league or down a league depending on your performance. So, take Staunton River: they have been a middling team for years, but have recently made strides. In this case, SR would move leagues next year. On the other hand, a team like Colonial Forge would have been demoted a couple of years ago when they started to slide.
Implimentation: we could just use the current 6-class system and start moving teams accordingly. 6A would be the elite schools and 1A the lowest league. However, I think fewer leagues would be better, maybe 3 or 4.
Objections: 1. Obviously, there could be elite wrestlers on average/bad teams. Response: Sure, but something akin already happens, e.g. Grundy has some solid individuals who have a less than challenging post-season. 2. Success at the elite league state tournament will depend more on a few elite individuals, while success in the lower leagues' state tournament will depend more on solid/mediocre dual teams. As a result,a mid-tier team with two Super-32 champs could find itself demoted and these elite wrestlers will be left out in the cold. Response: The criteria for moving leagues could take this into account, e.g. instead of just state team scores, maybe come up with some formula that puts a premium on state champs.
So, this is the solution, and it should be adopted by the next time the VHSL governing body meets
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Post by getoffthemat on Feb 19, 2024 13:27:22 GMT -5
I'm going to say it... Anyone who is FOR the 6 classes is from Grundy and is trophy hunting and wants to just pump up their meaningless record of "we have the most state titles in the state". 6 Classes is TERRIBLE. Ask any college coach In VA. They don't come to states to recruit. They come bc its an obligation and they need to be there. I'm gunna fix this thing. Whether you like it or not Its going to be difficult for you to sell your idea when you come off like an arrogant jerk.
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Post by chrisrowe on Feb 19, 2024 13:45:07 GMT -5
There are a few solutions offered but can someone describe exactly what problem we are trying to fix?
For me, 5 tournament rule is a way bigger problem and need fixing fast. Many local tournaments won't exist in a few years. Kids have more weigh-ins to worry. Just give the power back to school - make it 12 tournaments+duals total.
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Post by rollin on Feb 19, 2024 13:56:21 GMT -5
There are a few solutions offered but can someone describe exactly what problem we are trying to fix? For me, 5 tournament rule is a way bigger problem and need fixing fast. Many local tournaments won't exist in a few years. Kids have more weigh-ins to worry. Just give the power back to school - make it 12 tournaments+duals total. You are correct! I expect other than Va duals, most will wrestle their tournaments in Dec and fill up their schedule with quad events. Between tournament limits and weather, some kids lost 15 matches. They should be able to get 40 matches in.
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Post by stopstalling37 on Feb 19, 2024 14:04:31 GMT -5
There are a few solutions offered but can someone describe exactly what problem we are trying to fix? For me, 5 tournament rule is a way bigger problem and need fixing fast. Many local tournaments won't exist in a few years. Kids have more weigh-ins to worry. Just give the power back to school - make it 12 tournaments+duals total. You are correct! I expect other than Va duals, most will wrestle their tournaments in Dec and fill up their schedule with quad events. Between tournament limits and weather, some kids lost 15 matches. They should be able to get 40 matches in. who has the ability to change this rule? Is it the AD’s voting or is this strictly a Vawa decision?
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Post by colanowski on Feb 19, 2024 14:14:41 GMT -5
Mr Rollin...I don't know who you are. But you completely walked yourself in a circle there and became who you swore to destroy mid statment while calling me a "keyboard" warrior and mentioning my alma mater. While in fact I am the furthest thing. I may strategically use my keyboard - but I attempt invoke action. Objectively, more than any 30 year old in our states history has attempted to do. Whether you like my attempt at moving the needle, thats on you.
In no way is a good for a team to win by more than DOUBLE the second place scoring team.
I've never been a "lets boost my ego" guy but Im realistic. I am well aware I am abrasive but I speak the truth.
Am I a person who beleives VA should be a 1 class state like california? Absolutely not. BUT I do recall back in the day when it was a 3 class system and christiansburg and grundy BATTLED...Grundy was sending guys to programs like Iowa. We haven't seen that sort of thing happen in VA in years. Maybe if we're lukcy we're getting roster spots at VT or UVA.
BUT because our athletes do not experience that "iron sharpens iron" effect in our state 99% of our athletes cannot compete nationally. Look at the DATA! YOY we continue to do worse at in season national events like beast of the east, powerade, ironman, etc...
Legacy is great...But I want a system that challenges our athletes.
Whether my comments offend you...or inspire you...Thats OK! But I promise, I will not back down from attempting to be the change I wanted since I was a young boy in the stands watching my first state championship. I've now been to TWENTY state championships in my thirty years of life and this year inspired me to invoke change even further.
Stay Tuned...
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Post by chrisrowe on Feb 19, 2024 14:42:04 GMT -5
Ok. I understand the problem you are trying to fix now. You believe VA kids are not able to compete/get recruited nationally because lack of competition in VA itself. The hypothesis is current 6 class system waters down competition and the top-tier kids don't get to wrestle each other to keep them sharp.
It's possible that 6 class has something to do with that. But I got to tell you, back in the old days when Christiansburg dominated, they travelled everywhere to compete. That's how that they got so good.
With many high level competitions offered year round these days, I'm not sure consolidation of classes is the only way to go.
Instead, why don't VAWA set up RTCs, say Fairfax, Richmond, VA Beach, Roanoke. VAWA provides elite level coaching and live wrestling once a week. The athletes who are eligible to participate need to place in top 3 at states.
Don't you think this is a better way to prepare top tier VA kids to compete nationally?
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Post by rollin on Feb 19, 2024 14:50:11 GMT -5
Mr Rollin...I don't know who you are. But you completely walked yourself in a circle there and became who you swore to destroy mid statment while calling me a "keyboard" warrior and mentioning my alma mater. While in fact I am the furthest thing. I may strategically use my keyboard - but I attempt invoke action. Objectively, more than any 30 year old in our states history has attempted to do. Whether you like my attempt at moving the needle, thats on you. In no way is a good for a team to win by more than DOUBLE the second place scoring team. I've never been a "lets boost my ego" guy but Im realistic. I am well aware I am abrasive but I speak the truth. Am I a person who beleives VA should be a 1 class state like california? Absolutely not. BUT I do recall back in the day when it was a 3 class system and christiansburg and grundy BATTLED...Grundy was sending guys to programs like Iowa. We haven't seen that sort of thing happen in VA in years. Maybe if we're lukcy we're getting roster spots at VT or UVA. BUT because our athletes do not experience that "iron sharpens iron" effect in our state 99% of our athletes cannot compete nationally. Look at the DATA! YOY we continue to do worse at in season national events like beast of the east, powerade, ironman, etc... Legacy is great...But I want a system that challenges our athletes. Whether my comments offend you...or inspire you...Thats OK! But I promise, I will not back down from attempting to be the change I wanted since I was a young boy in the stands watching my first state championship. I've now been to TWENTY state championships in my thirty years of life and this year inspired me to invoke change even further. Stay Tuned... First and foremost, congratulations on being 30! I’m glad you have attended several state tournaments. I don’t think you put much effort into any research into class 1 or 2. First, this year is an anomaly. Grundy has one of the best teams they have had in years. Proven by the Va Duals. Class 1 took a hit when Riverheads moved up to Class 2, I’m hearing they are coming back. With them Class 1 is as tough in the top 3 as Class 2 and some others as well. Grundy returns all but one and it’s gonna be similar results next year as well. Grundy, I’m assuming you don’t know, has a top 100 recruit in 2x Powerade Placewinner Wyatt Bush. He has several top programs in contact with him. So the idea “you won’t get recruited in class 1” is bull. Wrestlers in Virginia will always be recruited based solely on national level success. Nobody has ever been recruited for Virginia State Titles. You have an argument you are trying to justify with Grundy’s dominance. Well, just last season, they had a forfeit in the lineup. Common in small schools. That’s what you don’t understand coming from a population center. Smaller schools don’t have the athletes that the big school have and it’s not fair to penalize them for their enrollment. I probably shouldn’t have mentioned your alma mater, but you shouldn’t have mentioned Grundy! I hope as you grow up and continue to mature and you are able to keep this passion. I personally think the problem you are seeing is that club coaches get paid to coach talented kids. That takes them away from their team and programs. In turn in turn, the teams don’t have a leader in the program until season. Where before the team develops and grows from his leadership. I think pay coaches is really the downfall of the teams in Virginia. Now don’t get me wrong, it helps the individual to get elite coaching, but the idea of programs like during the GB and CB recruiting wars, is not possible unless a whole club transfers to one high school and then you have an assembled all star squad. There are a few programs that do still build ground up and Grundy is one of them. It’s just hard to build a program if you price kids out of the sport. So realistically, build Virginia Wrestling! Find a way to make tournaments free and make clubs free to anyone who wants instruction. Then you are moving in the right direction!
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Post by TitansWrestlingCoach on Feb 19, 2024 15:09:44 GMT -5
There are a few solutions offered but can someone describe exactly what problem we are trying to fix? For me, 5 tournament rule is a way bigger problem and need fixing fast. Many local tournaments won't exist in a few years. Kids have more weigh-ins to worry. Just give the power back to school - make it 12 tournaments+duals total. I definitely think this is a bigger issue than the 6 classifications! It’s killing local tournaments! Like schools are having to choose which local tournaments they want to go to and which ones they won’t be able to go to! I know for our team with weather we were only able to go to 4 tournaments!
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Post by lowsingle on Feb 19, 2024 15:15:12 GMT -5
Ok. I understand the problem you are trying to fix now. You believe VA kids are not able to compete/get recruited nationally because lack of competition in VA itself. The hypothesis is current 6 class system waters down competition and the top-tier kids don't get to wrestle each other to keep them sharp. It's possible that 6 class has something to do with that. But I got to tell you, back in the old days when Christiansburg dominated, they travelled everywhere to compete. That's how that they got so good. With many high level competitions offered year round these days, I'm not sure consolidation of classes is the only way to go. Instead, why don't VAWA set up RTCs, say Fairfax, Richmond, VA Beach, Roanoke. VAWA provides elite level coaching and live wrestling once a week. The athletes who are eligible to participate need to place in top 3 at states. Don't you think this is a better way to prepare top tier VA kids to compete nationally? I like this idea. Don't think it will ever happen, but I like it.
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Post by lowsingle on Feb 19, 2024 15:21:12 GMT -5
A school with 200-400 kids should never have to worry about wrestling and competing for state titles with 750-1500. You can't walk those halls and find 20 kids to come out for wrestling 90% of the time in 1a. Heck, you're lucky and happy to find 10 kids and hope that they stay with it all 4 years. If you are going to get recruited, they will find you at National tournaments. We are lucky that we have so many near us. We need to promote those, and care less about States. Not every kid is going to go D1, and that is just fine. The goal can be just wrestling in general past High School.
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