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Post by colanowski on Feb 26, 2024 11:12:24 GMT -5
My esteemed colleagues of VA wrestling… After a long weekend at VAWA Folkstyle states…I have some thoughts to share…
Now…I’ve been on the other side of that table. Locked on track wrestling for 30 hours over the weekend and done it…Not to say my opinion is better than others…but if we went to trial for this I could be pulled in as a witness as perhaps a ‘subject matter expert’…
If by any means you feel offended by anything I have to say, I’d be happy to give you my direct line to discuss in further detail…
Event thoughts:
1. This event has gotten out of hand. There are too many people. Too many athletes competing…too many parents…too many spectators… Some options to fix this mess..
a. Get a bigger venue
b. Cut down on number of entrants
c. Do we need to look at changing the dates?
c. Create a qualification system to have the RIGHT kids at the event…
2. This event has turned into a big dog and pony show to say “lets recruit the most kids to win a banner”. Its honestly pretty cute…Grown men stroking their own ego for a $53 banner.
3. Here’s a statistic for you…207 of the 1566 entrants came from 4 clubs within a 41mi radius! (that’s about 13%). If you had the 69 entrants from Williamsburg almost 20% of entries are from about 5 clubs…I don’t know how you feel about this, but I’m not really that proud of that statistic.
4. I had an epiphany on Saturday morning walking into session 1 and I believe I have created a WORLD CLASS RULE! I shall call it…the CARSEAT RULE…Here’s how it works…If your kid has to ride in a car (or booster seat) seat to the tournament they should not be allowed to compete at states! I believe this is foolproof!
5. NOW…Lets address the elephant in the room…On Saturday I was in the gym for 14.5 hours. THIS IS NOT OK!!! I don’t care if this is a societal norm for our sport. This needs to change…Somehow…some way. Wrestling has the highest dropoff rate from MS to HS which is about 35% between 8th and 9th grade. Saturday, the oldest kids to wrestle were 14U. I don’t care if this is states…if you expect new wrestlers to want to be in this sport long term after what we endured on Saturday you are a FOOL!
6. Speaking on trophy hunting…Since when did 16U become a majority HS event?!? What happened to “Middle School” states…?
7. I'm not going to single people out and blame officials...but how many officials at VAWA officiated at VHSL States? I bet very few...We need better quality officials!
Thoughts on the State…
What is our vision? What is our long term goal w VA Wrestling…? Even I, who was once the ED of the state can’t tell you.
I feel like we continue to move two steps back…
Here are some things we need to do to move forward:
1. Collaboration – We need to work together. I don’t know many clubs/teams/etc that come together on a regular basis. I believe this is imperative moving forward. I will be doing my part to see how I can collaborate with other
2. More opportunities – Wrestling is growing. We need to create more competitive opportunities for my athletes. I can personally say we had two dates taken off of our calendar bc of events filling up too quickly. This shouldn’t happen. We need more people stepping up to run events
3. VISION – We need a vision. Every year I go into the eye doctor to test my vision…I don’t believe we’ve had a check up on our state’s vision since we brought new leadership into the fold. I believe in Daryl Weber. I believe he can do great things for the state. I want to learn more about his vision for the future….
What were your thoughts on VAWA States and what our state needs to move forward in the future?
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va
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Post by va on Feb 26, 2024 11:36:30 GMT -5
I could not agree more with your assessment of this weekend’s event. Change is needed without a doubt!
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Post by gcscoach on Feb 26, 2024 12:01:46 GMT -5
Vawa was completely out of control.
The worst part was the venue setup. Having one thousand camping chairs strewn in a haphazard fashion made just getting to the correct mat in time a challenge. I would like to see the fire marshals face if one happened upon this event.
Second worse was the volume of participants. Having a 32 man bracket and a 64 man bracket sharing time on one mat that started an hour late guarantees you will be wrestling until 10pm. I think it may be time for a qualifier into VAWA. Take a random weight and compare 2023 to 2024. U12 78lbs had 22 competitors in 2023 and 37 in 2024. 14u 106 had 20 in 2023 and 29 in 2024. It was like that in so many weights. That definitely meant a tougher tournament but it sure means you better plan to stand on hard concrete for 15 hours because you certainly don't have room to sit.
Third major problem was allowing zero time for warmup between rounds. Three mats open to warm up for 600 kids for about 15 minutes was just stupid.
The refing was about the same quality we have seen all year so I can't complain. I can't imagine a worse event to work if I was a ref. Coaches pretty much yelling about everything plus the wrestling moms within 10 feet screaming their heads off. The only course of action would be kick a coach out (which I saw a few) but there was nobody to actually escort the coach out. I will not blame refs for anything at this event.
Truthfully, it just felt like a money maker. Same exact setup as last year with 1/3 more wrestlers just feels like a money grab. Your expenses stayed roughly the same but get $60 per head for 1/3rd more kids.
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luffy
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Post by luffy on Feb 26, 2024 12:16:33 GMT -5
I think you can look at South Carolina for a pretty good format on how to run youth state. They have an upper and lower state tournament that you have to place top 4 I think to go to state. Cuts the kids down and it really then becomes more of a state atmosphere. They have an outside company run the event War Wrestling promotions.
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Post by wrestlinggods on Feb 26, 2024 12:27:10 GMT -5
My esteemed colleagues of VA wrestling… After a long weekend at VAWA Folkstyle states…I have some thoughts to share… Now…I’ve been on the other side of that table. Locked on track wrestling for 30 hours over the weekend and done it…Not to say my opinion is better than others…but if we went to trial for this I could be pulled in as a witness as perhaps a ‘subject matter expert’… If by any means you feel offended by anything I have to say, I’d be happy to give you my direct line to discuss in further detail… Event thoughts: 1. This event has gotten out of hand. There are too many people. Too many athletes competing…too many parents…too many spectators… Some options to fix this mess.. a. Get a bigger venue b. Cut down on number of entrants c. Do we need to look at changing the dates? c. Create a qualification system to have the RIGHT kids at the event… 2. This event has turned into a big dog and pony show to say “lets recruit the most kids to win a banner”. Its honestly pretty cute…Grown men stroking their own ego for a $53 banner. 3. Here’s a statistic for you…207 of the 1566 entrants came from 4 clubs within a 41mi radius! (that’s about 13%). If you had the 69 entrants from Williamsburg almost 20% of entries are from about 5 clubs…I don’t know how you feel about this, but I’m not really that proud of that statistic. 4. I had an epiphany on Saturday morning walking into session 1 and I believe I have created a WORLD CLASS RULE! I shall call it…the CARSEAT RULE…Here’s how it works…If your kid has to ride in a car (or booster seat) seat to the tournament they should not be allowed to compete at states! I believe this is foolproof! 5. NOW…Lets address the elephant in the room…On Saturday I was in the gym for 14.5 hours. THIS IS NOT OK!!! I don’t care if this is a societal norm for our sport. This needs to change…Somehow…some way. Wrestling has the highest dropoff rate from MS to HS which is about 35% between 8th and 9th grade. Saturday, the oldest kids to wrestle were 14U. I don’t care if this is states…if you expect new wrestlers to want to be in this sport long term after what we endured on Saturday you are a FOOL! 6. Speaking on trophy hunting…Since when did 16U become a majority HS event?!? What happened to “Middle School” states…? 7. I'm not going to single people out and blame officials...but how many officials at VAWA officiated at VHSL States? I bet very few...We need better quality officials! Thoughts on the State… What is our vision? What is our long term goal w VA Wrestling…? Even I, who was once the ED of the state can’t tell you. I feel like we continue to move two steps back… Here are some things we need to do to move forward: 1. Collaboration – We need to work together. I don’t know many clubs/teams/etc that come together on a regular basis. I believe this is imperative moving forward. I will be doing my part to see how I can collaborate with other 2. More opportunities – Wrestling is growing. We need to create more competitive opportunities for my athletes. I can personally say we had two dates taken off of our calendar bc of events filling up too quickly. This shouldn’t happen. We need more people stepping up to run events 3. VISION – We need a vision. Every year I go into the eye doctor to test my vision…I don’t believe we’ve had a check up on our state’s vision since we brought new leadership into the fold. I believe in Daryl Weber. I believe he can do great things for the state. I want to learn more about his vision for the future…. What were your thoughts on VAWA States and what our state needs to move forward in the future? Spot on!! I can’t even type anything up without getting upset 1. Need bigger venue 2. Qualifying events 3. Place with bleachers 4. Never seen so many chairs 5. Better concessions and that they stay open Move it back to Arthur Ashe or the new Henrico Sports Center |
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chemo
New Member
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Post by chemo on Feb 26, 2024 12:40:51 GMT -5
My esteemed colleagues of VA wrestling… After a long weekend at VAWA Folkstyle states…I have some thoughts to share… Now…I’ve been on the other side of that table. Locked on track wrestling for 30 hours over the weekend and done it…Not to say my opinion is better than others…but if we went to trial for this I could be pulled in as a witness as perhaps a ‘subject matter expert’… If by any means you feel offended by anything I have to say, I’d be happy to give you my direct line to discuss in further detail… Event thoughts: 1. This event has gotten out of hand. There are too many people. Too many athletes competing…too many parents…too many spectators… Some options to fix this mess.. a. Get a bigger venue b. Cut down on number of entrants c. Do we need to look at changing the dates? c. Create a qualification system to have the RIGHT kids at the event… 2. This event has turned into a big dog and pony show to say “lets recruit the most kids to win a banner”. Its honestly pretty cute…Grown men stroking their own ego for a $53 banner. 3. Here’s a statistic for you…207 of the 1566 entrants came from 4 clubs within a 41mi radius! (that’s about 13%). If you had the 69 entrants from Williamsburg almost 20% of entries are from about 5 clubs…I don’t know how you feel about this, but I’m not really that proud of that statistic. 4. I had an epiphany on Saturday morning walking into session 1 and I believe I have created a WORLD CLASS RULE! I shall call it…the CARSEAT RULE…Here’s how it works…If your kid has to ride in a car (or booster seat) seat to the tournament they should not be allowed to compete at states! I believe this is foolproof! 5. NOW…Lets address the elephant in the room…On Saturday I was in the gym for 14.5 hours. THIS IS NOT OK!!! I don’t care if this is a societal norm for our sport. This needs to change…Somehow…some way. Wrestling has the highest dropoff rate from MS to HS which is about 35% between 8th and 9th grade. Saturday, the oldest kids to wrestle were 14U. I don’t care if this is states…if you expect new wrestlers to want to be in this sport long term after what we endured on Saturday you are a FOOL! 6. Speaking on trophy hunting…Since when did 16U become a majority HS event?!? What happened to “Middle School” states…? 7. I'm not going to single people out and blame officials...but how many officials at VAWA officiated at VHSL States? I bet very few...We need better quality officials! Thoughts on the State… What is our vision? What is our long term goal w VA Wrestling…? Even I, who was once the ED of the state can’t tell you. I feel like we continue to move two steps back… Here are some things we need to do to move forward: 1. Collaboration – We need to work together. I don’t know many clubs/teams/etc that come together on a regular basis. I believe this is imperative moving forward. I will be doing my part to see how I can collaborate with other 2. More opportunities – Wrestling is growing. We need to create more competitive opportunities for my athletes. I can personally say we had two dates taken off of our calendar bc of events filling up too quickly. This shouldn’t happen. We need more people stepping up to run events 3. VISION – We need a vision. Every year I go into the eye doctor to test my vision…I don’t believe we’ve had a check up on our state’s vision since we brought new leadership into the fold. I believe in Daryl Weber. I believe he can do great things for the state. I want to learn more about his vision for the future…. What were your thoughts on VAWA States and what our state needs to move forward in the future? 1. Agreed, but it is a good problem to have. I would definitely advocate for different dates (girls states were literally the two days before), bigger venue and/or regionals. Limiting number just based on first-come, first-serve could be problematic for a “state championship” tournament. 2. Neutral. If clubs bring a lot of kids, good for them. All clubs do ego-stroking social media posts celebrating their champions. 3. Not sure of the point of this. I would expect local clubs to make the tournament a priority. 4. Maybe VAWA shouldn’t offer 6U, 8U, or 9U age levels if we don’t want little kids at the tournament. Did you try changing that while you were executive director? Did you face a lot of resistance? I think having state championships for toddlers is silly personally, but apparently others disagree. 5. Couldn’t agree more. This is a problem with wrestling and I definitely would like to see ideas for solutions. 6. We are still relatively new to the state, but wasn’t this an age-level tournament? Everything is listed as birth year. It looked like every club we were familiar with had high-schoolers. If it is supposed to be middle-school, VAWA should publicize that a bit better, because there were a lot of high-schoolers there and not a single thing said middle-school. Also, why were there 6U, 8U, etc. if it was middle school states? Doesn’t bother me either way, but VAWA should definitely pick one. 7. Everybody complains about officials, but I have never once heard a legitimate solution. Any D1 wrestlers we have encountered go into coaching, not officiating. Maybe we should pay them more. Overall, I think refs do a pretty good job. I would not have wanted to have been there Saturday for any amount of money. 1. My kids’ club frequently trains with other clubs. Definitely a good idea. 2. Running tournaments is tough. (See all the complaints about this weekend). Most tournaments around the state seem to be the same group of kids, just in a different gym. I don’t know if more tournaments is necessarily the answer. Can we attract wrestlers from out of state to come to the new tournaments? Then, I’m in. 3. VAWA needs to be about growing the sport in my opinion. More youth clubs (elementary or elementary/middle school) would be my priority. Just like little league or rec basketball. Coaching clinics for guys like me that never wrestled, but fell in love with the sport once our kids started wrestling and would be willing to coach little kids. I have coaching certifications in three different sports, because the governing bodies offered them and I thought it would make me be a better coach. Haven’t seen anything like that since we moved here for wrestling. This isn’t VAWA specific, but I would love to see more true duals where the elementary program duals the other school’s elementary program at 5, middle school at 6 and high school at 7. Get the community involved. High school kids very rarely wrestle in front of their friends. Our middle schooler wrestles in front of more fans than our high schooler. Duals and rivalries are awesome, but they don’t seem to be big here and I kind of understand why after talking to some people about it, but would love to see it change. Get the Virginia college coaches (D1 and D3) involved and set up “RTCs” like some have talked about. Once a quarter or something for state placers or something. Also, allow coaches to observe so coaches can learn and improve. Would also help with college recruiting. In state wrestlers would be good for the schools. Imagine VT was in contention for a team trophy with an all-Virginia roster? That’d be pretty cool. Again, we are new here, so a lot of this stuff may have been done or tried and if so, please ignore everything I said. Thoughts? |
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Post by seabass80 on Feb 26, 2024 12:46:02 GMT -5
I believe, with anyone/entity that is willing to brave putting on an event that intentions were well meaning. Sometimes you have to have disaster to enact some change. Hopefully this past weekend will spur some changes. Seems to me, much of the planning is too centralized and does not seek external help in the planning and execution process. Planning for next year should be happening sometime in the next few weeks, How come coaches and officials are not involved? (beyond the VAWA board) There is a wealth of experience untapped, and resources under utilized. Here are some thoughts:
1. Better Venue,(Even Henrico would face similar issues in layout and seating) Someplace like the John Paul Jones Arena at UVA (or similar) where spectators would need to be in seats , off the floor. The floor would only be for wrestlers and coaches (Actually check who has a legit card), that can be checked at the entrance like they used to at Authur Ashe (too small to go back there). Maybe we could spot light the finals on 2 mats when age groups are in session??
2. Revist the VAWA regionals plan, create 4 regions top 6 advance to state, hold 2 region events on alternating weekends (likely on a Sunday where a HS just held a regional VHSL tournament), regional finalists get seeded and a bye (24 man bracket), If you dont make it to states on 1 weekend you can travel to another regional event the following and try there (like they do in freestyle). 4 more events with VAWA name, can generate more money than a single states even if they have to sub-contract some costs at regional level. This way you can still a respective state tournament done in 1 day and under 5 matches required for the wrestler. If you didn't make it to states you have a goal for next season for that wrestler, just like HS.
I believe timing is fine, mirroring the VHSL season makes sense for folkstyle, its a drain on refs and a lot of Sunday wrestling, but in other seasons/months participation would be low, watch the numbers of VAWA states vs VACW super states.
It takes more volunteering from the community, folks are happy to pay and participate, its takes alot to volunteer and step up to help run, this is where local clubs should call on alumni to give back, or charge what it costs and pay workers, again we don't know the goal or mission as many outside the board are excluded in the process.
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Post by wagner911 on Feb 26, 2024 12:53:18 GMT -5
As discussed in other threads, Flo along with Askren ranked us basically last in the nation in wrestling. This has nothing to do with the talent or coaching here as it has EVERYTHING to do with people who think we need 7 divisions. At the most we should have 2 with 1 being public and one being private schools. The only reason for having 2 is they play by different rule sets. The optimal situation is having 1 true state champ. This instantly puts us top ten by just changing structure.
As far as youth goes, we need to have staggered starts with half the weights starting the first half of the day and the other half later in the day/ or next day.. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. If Tyrant can wrestle in a timely manner, so can we. We need some critical thinkers and doers to facilitate this.
Lastly, we need to develop a monthly “session” as an invite only to the top kids in the state to get together and train together. This is for elementary through Hs. Iron sharpens iron is not just a saying…. We can rotate the site of the practice and have top coaches in the state along with guest coaches run the practice. We did this in PA for a while and the numbers of kids who are now college wrestlings and state placers in PA is impressive….. I’m down to help…. Time to get better
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Post by Keel on Feb 26, 2024 13:03:58 GMT -5
1112 wrestlers participated Saturday
454 wrestlers participated Sunday
Suggested sessions next year based on this year's participation numbers:
Session 1 Saturday AM (9AM - 3PM)
Boys 8U 16U (486)
Session 2 Saturday PM (3PM - 9PM)
Boys 12U (314)
Session 3 Sunday AM (9AM - 2PM)
All Girls
Boys 10U (420)
Session 4 Sunday PM (2PM - 8PM)
Boys 14U (346)
I hear great things about Tyrant's location. More mats would definitely help for sure.
I'm not against the idea, but region qualifiers might not get the RIGHT kids to the state tournament. If the 6 best kids are within a 41 mile radius 2 of the best kids are not at the state tournament. Some of our best kids skip the state tournament, including a 2024 folkstyle national champion. Asking their families to miss another weekend to 'qualify' for states may result in more of our best kids deciding another state title isn't worth it. How legitimate is the state title if 2 or 3 of the best kids in the state do not participate?
I don't understand everyone's grief about big wrestling clubs. Increases in participation are normally a reflection of a quality product and available capacity. Some of our best wrestlers over the last decade have also come from 8 kids and a coach in a basement, or a dozen or so in a converted chicken barn. But when you combine higher population density with higher average income, club directors are able to afford space for four mats and develop a large local coaching staff or pay extra for clinicians. I personally know a couple of guys who have put themselves at huge financial risk to make it happen. Dozens of surrounding high schools are now filled with competitive wrestlers as a result of these big evil clubs. Great wrestlers are being developed there as well.
The history behind 16U. When they changed to reflect USAW weights and ages it left out the 15 year old 8th graders. So they added the 16U division to provide an opportunity for those athletes. The brackets were VERY small the first year. HS kids started to participate a little more each year. After a while it resulted in some really interesting matchups between the next generation of rising freshman up against some folks that just placed at high school states. The tournament is named VAWA Folkstyle states BTW, not middle school states.
I believe Daryl will do a great job. He is already making changes with a long-term focus on culture. VAWA is experiencing a lot of turnover after 10 or more years of consistent leadership. Once things settle a little, the new group will make necessary changes to keep up with the growth.
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Post by rollin on Feb 26, 2024 13:10:14 GMT -5
I’d like to see them get away from the age group stuff and just do a 6-8 middle school state. Age group stuff gets freshmen in the division. The event shouldn’t have a qualifier, it’s just another round of sucking every penny from parents. Let everyone in and accommodate the group. Looked like 14 hours day 1 and 6 day 2. Manage the brackets and schedule 2 10 hour days. I like the idea of eliminating everything below 3rd grade. I’d personally like to see 2 divisions 3-5 and 6-8 (can’t be 15 before Aug 1). This puts the kids in the tournament that are older and gives more depth in the divisions that are available. It’s cute to see a 40 pound state champ, but will they wrestle next year? I’m of the opinion it’s better to wait till middle school to turn up the heat. But some people are trying to assemble teams for a banner or a trophy or a jug. In the end, those kids all go to different schools and will never compete together. It’s comical to see how far these guys go to sell their businesses (and that’s what it is a business of making money off the sport)!!!
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chemo
New Member
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Post by chemo on Feb 26, 2024 13:24:45 GMT -5
As discussed in other threads, Flo along with Askren ranked us basically last in the nation in wrestling. This has nothing to do with the talent or coaching here as it has EVERYTHING to do with people who think we need 7 divisions. At the most we should have 2 with 1 being public and one being private schools. The only reason for having 2 is they play by different rule sets. The optimal situation is having 1 true state champ. This instantly puts us top ten by just changing structure. As far as youth goes, we need to have staggered starts with half the weights starting the first half of the day and the other half later in the day/ or next day.. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. If Tyrant can wrestle in a timely manner, so can we. We need some critical thinkers and doers to facilitate this. Lastly, we need to develop a monthly “session” as an invite only to the top kids in the state to get together and train together. This is for elementary through Hs. Iron sharpens iron is not just a saying…. We can rotate the site of the practice and have top coaches in the state along with guest coaches run the practice. We did this in PA for a while and the numbers of kids who are now college wrestlings and state placers in PA is impressive….. I’m down to help…. Time to get better They didn’t rank Virginia last in the nation in wrestling. They said it was the easiest state to win a state title. Big difference. If people listened to the rest of the segment, they went on to talk about states that had state classifications with 16 schools that can enter two wrestlers into each weight class at states. I would say that is worse than seven classes. Going to one class would not make Virginia wrestling top 10 in the country. It won’t even make it better. Same wrestlers, same coaches. It would just make one weekend a year more competitive. There were staggered starts this past weekend. It didn’t help. This could be a good idea. We didn’t see it where we lived in Pennsylvania and I would hesitate to say that these sessions would have been the reason those wrestlers are now wrestling in college. It certainly didn’t hurt though! I think there was just a lot more “iron” around Pennsylvania. Even in the local rooms, kids were a lot more competitive. So, you might have to travel to get that in Virginia whereas our local elementary rec club associated by school district (ours was equivalent to about 4a in Virginia) had something like 125 kids. Strong middle school program with PJW champs and multiple D1 wrestlers. I feel like it would have to be college or club coaches running them though, not high-school coaches. How do you get buy-in from them? |
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Post by wagner911 on Feb 26, 2024 15:08:46 GMT -5
As discussed in other threads, Flo along with Askren ranked us basically last in the nation in wrestling. This has nothing to do with the talent or coaching here as it has EVERYTHING to do with people who think we need 7 divisions. At the most we should have 2 with 1 being public and one being private schools. The only reason for having 2 is they play by different rule sets. The optimal situation is having 1 true state champ. This instantly puts us top ten by just changing structure. As far as youth goes, we need to have staggered starts with half the weights starting the first half of the day and the other half later in the day/ or next day.. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. If Tyrant can wrestle in a timely manner, so can we. We need some critical thinkers and doers to facilitate this. Lastly, we need to develop a monthly “session” as an invite only to the top kids in the state to get together and train together. This is for elementary through Hs. Iron sharpens iron is not just a saying…. We can rotate the site of the practice and have top coaches in the state along with guest coaches run the practice. We did this in PA for a while and the numbers of kids who are now college wrestlings and state placers in PA is impressive….. I’m down to help…. Time to get better They didn’t rank Virginia last in the nation in wrestling. They said it was the easiest state to win a state title. Big difference. If people listened to the rest of the segment, they went on to talk about states that had state classifications with 16 schools that can enter two wrestlers into each weight class at states. I would say that is worse than seven classes. Going to one class would not make Virginia wrestling top 10 in the country. It won’t even make it better. Same wrestlers, same coaches. It would just make one weekend a year more competitive. There were staggered starts this past weekend. It didn’t help. This could be a good idea. We didn’t see it where we lived in Pennsylvania and I would hesitate to say that these sessions would have been the reason those wrestlers are now wrestling in college. It certainly didn’t hurt though! I think there was just a lot more “iron” around Pennsylvania. Even in the local rooms, kids were a lot more competitive. So, you might have to travel to get that in Virginia whereas our local elementary rec club associated by school district (ours was equivalent to about 4a in Virginia) had something like 125 kids. Strong middle school program with PJW champs and multiple D1 wrestlers. I feel like it would have to be college or club coaches running them though, not high-school coaches. How do you get buy-in from them? Easiest to win and last are same thing to me. You could fix this by having a Super State where top 2 from all divisions compete. That solves the issues. I really do think we need top teams/ clubs coming together. Again, we have the talent and brain power we need to start with better planning. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. We need to take the best of all the states and create the best system |
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chemo
New Member
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Post by chemo on Feb 26, 2024 15:34:47 GMT -5
They didn’t rank Virginia last in the nation in wrestling. They said it was the easiest state to win a state title. Big difference. If people listened to the rest of the segment, they went on to talk about states that had state classifications with 16 schools that can enter two wrestlers into each weight class at states. I would say that is worse than seven classes. Going to one class would not make Virginia wrestling top 10 in the country. It won’t even make it better. Same wrestlers, same coaches. It would just make one weekend a year more competitive. There were staggered starts this past weekend. It didn’t help. This could be a good idea. We didn’t see it where we lived in Pennsylvania and I would hesitate to say that these sessions would have been the reason those wrestlers are now wrestling in college. It certainly didn’t hurt though! I think there was just a lot more “iron” around Pennsylvania. Even in the local rooms, kids were a lot more competitive. So, you might have to travel to get that in Virginia whereas our local elementary rec club associated by school district (ours was equivalent to about 4a in Virginia) had something like 125 kids. Strong middle school program with PJW champs and multiple D1 wrestlers. I feel like it would have to be college or club coaches running them though, not high-school coaches. How do you get buy-in from them? Easiest to win and last are same thing to me. You could fix this by having a Super State where top 2 from all divisions compete. That solves the issues. I really do think we need top teams/ clubs coming together. Again, we have the talent and brain power we need to start with better planning. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. We need to take the best of all the states and create the best system I think if Pa went to 100 classes, they could be the easiest state to win, but would still have the best wrestlers. I still say most of these kids wrestle each other throughout the year, so it doesn’t really make much of a difference. Now, if the regular season was limited to same class competition, I would agree. I don’t want to turn this into another classification debate though. |
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Post by wagner911 on Feb 26, 2024 21:36:47 GMT -5
Easiest to win and last are same thing to me. You could fix this by having a Super State where top 2 from all divisions compete. That solves the issues. I really do think we need top teams/ clubs coming together. Again, we have the talent and brain power we need to start with better planning. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. We need to take the best of all the states and create the best system I think if Pa went to 100 classes, they could be the easiest state to win, but would still have the best wrestlers. I still say most of these kids wrestle each other throughout the year, so it doesn’t really make much of a difference. Now, if the regular season was limited to same class competition, I would agree. I don’t want to turn this into another classification debate though. Its not just the classes that make PA better. They pull together and train together. Anyone ever train with Marsteller….on any given night they get gets driving from hours away from multiple states to train together. They level of talent in. The room is not the same as VA. It’s just not….we have great coaches and great wrestlers but don’t pull together. So, on a random Tuesday night that room has 10 kids ranked in the country. This is an easy fix if clubs and coaches can lose their egos. |
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Post by dogpound on Feb 27, 2024 12:06:23 GMT -5
I agree with many of the original post's complaints. Here is my two cents:
Venue:
-Need to change. What about the Virginia Beach Event Center where the Class 4-6 state tournament was held? Plenty of space, restrooms, concessions, etc. VA Beach also has the infrastructure to handle this amount of people with regard to hotels and restaurants. Unless you want fast food, Doswell and Ashland are food deserts. They moved the start time to 1pm, but on some mats the second session didn't start until 3-4pm. A lot of kids didn't eat dinner and were wrestling until 10pm or later. When we finally got out of there, most of the restaurants in the area were closed. At the very least, get some food trucks in there. Any college arena in the state would have worked too.
-It would also be nice to have a more modern venue that has wifi. You had to go outside anytime you wanted to check Trackwrestling.
-The fan/wrestler/family experience was miserable. One mom said, "This is what hell must be like." The lawn chairs and blankets strewn everywhere made it feel like a refugee camp.
Tournament:
-too many age groups on Saturday. Some kids were wrestling past 10pm at night. There would be hour wait between between matches, but if you advanced to the later rounds, you would have back-to-back-back matches in the medal rounds. Should have been U8/10 and girls on Sat, and U12/14/16 on Sunday.
-definitely need qualifiers. A lot of kids down there probably weren't ready.
-some effort should be made to put teammates on the opposite sides of the bracket
-some of the brackets were way too large. I saw a lot of kids crying and injured by the end of the night. Eight matches in one day is a lot to ask of a pre-teen.
Misc:
-I didn't see them wash the mats once during the entire weekend. By the end of the day, the mats were filthy.
-there needs to be people policing the inner mat areas if you have a wristband system. Too many moms/families/kids inside the gates crowding the mats. The refs would try to clear them periodically, but they need someone to do it full time.
-Agreed, it felt like a money grab. $60/wrestler x ~1500 wrestlers = ~$90,000. You can get a better venue.
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