|
|
Post by warriorswrestling on Dec 19, 2023 9:21:01 GMT -5
To my knowledge it has been proposed a few times and denied a few times Maybe I'm wrong...but I don't think an additional week of season is the way to go...maybe im thinking too high level here... BUT first issue I see is referees. VAWA folkstyle states is happening + girls state championships week after season Issue #2...Kids dont want to put it on the line once they've made it to the top of the mountain (hence why VAC super states has never taken off) #3 COACHES dont want to put it on the line once they've already done it (and quite frankly they're exhausted and want to spend time w their family after 4 months of wrestling everyday) In order to make it work it needs to be in season. @rando you said a ranking system won't work...I think it's the only way...You have to have an unbias committee of rankers that honor the integrity of the event... Any way we can petition/propose for VHSL to use 3 classes for state championships in individual sports like wrestling, cross country, swimming, golf etc… |
|
|
|
Post by wrestler2027 on Dec 19, 2023 9:33:00 GMT -5
Top 4 from 7 classes is too much... In the most polite way possible...not every weight from every classification SHOULD be represented. If this is an elite event and we want to make it worth everyones time lets cut the fluff. 3arankings says rankings are no good, you say top 4 from each class is no good. What would you suggest as a compromise? I tend to agree with you in that a lot of the top 4 kids aren't ranked in the top 15 all class. That's especially true for the smaller 1A and 2A schools. I guess if the point is to find the "best" in VA, some classes would be left out at some weights. Let's be honest with ourselves though, this event is unlikely to happen. Too many complainers and not enough support from VHSL to get things changed to make it possible. So most wrestlers who are serious enough will continue to do what they do: compete at higher level events out of season, reserve a couple of there 5 outside events for the big in season tournaments, and rely on H2H results to determine who's the best in VA |
|
|
|
Post by colanowski on Dec 19, 2023 9:40:34 GMT -5
In theory...the idea is destined for failure... But in reality..If you build it they will come... ...2025... Stay Tuned  |
|
luffy
New Member
Posts: 46
|
Post by luffy on Dec 19, 2023 12:01:22 GMT -5
I think the individual side will be harder than the team side. If we are limited to the amount of tournaments then how about 3 quads lol. Top 8 teams broken into 2 quads. Then just a third quad with the top 2 teams from the previous. Seems legit to me. Now Great Bridge will not want to do that so no need to invite them lmao.
|
|
|
|
Post by Keel on Dec 19, 2023 12:28:59 GMT -5
The only way this works is if it is VHSL mandated. State Champs generally won't wrestle after states. Coaches won't generally give up a tournament they normally attend to send their one or two good wrestlers to a new unproven event.
|
|
|
|
Post by colanowski on Dec 19, 2023 13:00:28 GMT -5
The only way this works is if it is VHSL mandated. State Champs generally won't wrestle after states. Coaches won't generally give up a tournament they normally attend to send their one or two good wrestlers to a new unproven event. No no no Mr. Keel... The only way it will work is if WE make it work...but thats going to take a lot of effort and heavy lifting that a lot of people don't want to do because we're stuck in this mindset of "it wont work" BUT Here's the thing...In order to do something that has never been done...It takes doing things that nobody has ever done. Just know...I have a Dream. 2025. You can be there...or you can talk about how silly of an idea it was. You're choice. |
|
luffy
New Member
Posts: 46
|
Post by luffy on Dec 19, 2023 13:48:52 GMT -5
If you want to do it reach out to me. I might have a facility that would be affordable and great to host it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Keel on Dec 19, 2023 18:37:12 GMT -5
Your passion and ambition are inspiring, but building something great takes more than just pushing against the established order. It requires learning from the wisdom of those who came before you, standing on their shoulders to see even further. As Isaac Newton said, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Don't dismiss the effort and dedication poured into changing the current system as merely an 'it won't work' mindset. See them as stepping stones, valuable lessons learned by the very people you hope to inspire. Instead of presenting your idea as a challenge to their legacy, frame it as a chance to build upon it, to add another chapter to the story. Show them your respect for their contributions. True leadership is about building a brighter future together. So, let your passion be fueled by respect, your ambition guided by collaboration, and your vision inspired by the wisdom of those who paved the way. Only then can your "silly idea" blossom into a reality that benefits everyone. I really hope your new plan is successful. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by colanowski on Dec 20, 2023 7:33:09 GMT -5
@keel with all due respect...that may have been the most condescending thing I've ever read that was directed towards me. So congratulations...Now staying within the rules of the forum...I'll keep this professional.
This current system is broken. And if you think bowing down to the VHSL is the way to get behind beating states like PA, NJ, OH...or for that matter even GA. VA was #25 at Fargo in total team standings. We had a 40% YOY decrease in BOTE place winners...Nothing laid out by our current leadership is working.
So pardon me while myself and innovative thinkers challenge the status quo. You can sit back, keep your hands and feet inside the ride OR you can continue to support a broken system. But I'll leave that up to you.
|
|
chemo
New Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by chemo on Dec 20, 2023 10:03:02 GMT -5
HOLA Wrestling Compadres! I hope everyone had a fun filled weekend of your favorite winter activity - RASSLIN!!! I'm in the works of big things to promote VA wrestling in the best way I feel I possibly can...what are these plans you say? Well, that's not your business just yet! In the meantime, I will be your favorite forum blogger trying to throw out my takes from the wrestling I got to watch from the comfort of my couch... - Early season candidates for coach of the year....last week I mentioned coach Shuler from Grassfield...this week...Steve Stiegler from Orange County. They brought 6 wrestlers to Beast of the East (four girls, two boys). Both boys qualify for day two...Three of their four girls are top 8. Just a great performance by a small town school. OH YEAH! And without their two defending state champions in the lineup they finished third at Mechanicsville, just two points out of second. Pretty impressive. I've had the pleasure of working w/ Steve and think he is one of the most selfless individuals. Truly cares about his athletes...Orange may be a title contender this year in 4A.
- My outstanding VA Wrestler from Beast goes to...Thomas Stofka from First Colonial. Stofka came in as the #14 seed at 150, knocking off the 3 and 11 seeds to make it to the semifinals. He eventually finished fourth place. I don't say this often about VA kids...but I think Stofka is a LEGIT D1 talent. He's already a 2x state champion and I think this is what he needed to really show he's a d1 talent. From an outsider perspective I think he'd be a great fit for George Mason.
- This one might spark some spicy comments...but VA's production continues to decline at national events...Last year at BOTE we had 14 place winners...this year we are down to 10. We need to stop trending down...HOW do we do that...that leads my to a big topic I will continue to bring home...
Our high school system sets our athletes up for failure at the national level
7 state champions
limited to 5 tournaments (anything more than a quad is considered a tournament)
consider that most solid teams attend atleast 1 of the following - Beast, Ironman, Powerade, Escape the Rock, Trojan Wars...we're limited to REALLY four events per year...
ONE of those MUST be an in season competition that brings the states best together. We've gotta put our egos aside to make this happen...somehow...someway!!!
I recently listened to an interview w Tony Ramos (Associate Head Coach at UNC) talking about an event in FL. He goes there to recruit the SE because states like Georgia(also has 7 classes) you can't attend the state championships to get a good gauge on athletes.
Sooo folks...stay tuned...I am trying my dang hardest to make something like this happen in 2025!!!
So. To spark some conversation...If you're hosting an event to bring together the BEST teams/individuals in the state...who can't be left off the list? How does the high school system set the kids up for failure? We moved here from Pennsylvania and I just checked our old school schedule. 7 duals and 5 tournaments. They have produced multiple D1 kids the last several years. |
|
|
|
Post by wrestler2027 on Dec 20, 2023 11:04:46 GMT -5
HOLA Wrestling Compadres! I hope everyone had a fun filled weekend of your favorite winter activity - RASSLIN!!! I'm in the works of big things to promote VA wrestling in the best way I feel I possibly can...what are these plans you say? Well, that's not your business just yet! In the meantime, I will be your favorite forum blogger trying to throw out my takes from the wrestling I got to watch from the comfort of my couch... - Early season candidates for coach of the year....last week I mentioned coach Shuler from Grassfield...this week...Steve Stiegler from Orange County. They brought 6 wrestlers to Beast of the East (four girls, two boys). Both boys qualify for day two...Three of their four girls are top 8. Just a great performance by a small town school. OH YEAH! And without their two defending state champions in the lineup they finished third at Mechanicsville, just two points out of second. Pretty impressive. I've had the pleasure of working w/ Steve and think he is one of the most selfless individuals. Truly cares about his athletes...Orange may be a title contender this year in 4A.
- My outstanding VA Wrestler from Beast goes to...Thomas Stofka from First Colonial. Stofka came in as the #14 seed at 150, knocking off the 3 and 11 seeds to make it to the semifinals. He eventually finished fourth place. I don't say this often about VA kids...but I think Stofka is a LEGIT D1 talent. He's already a 2x state champion and I think this is what he needed to really show he's a d1 talent. From an outsider perspective I think he'd be a great fit for George Mason.
- This one might spark some spicy comments...but VA's production continues to decline at national events...Last year at BOTE we had 14 place winners...this year we are down to 10. We need to stop trending down...HOW do we do that...that leads my to a big topic I will continue to bring home...
Our high school system sets our athletes up for failure at the national level
7 state champions
limited to 5 tournaments (anything more than a quad is considered a tournament)
consider that most solid teams attend atleast 1 of the following - Beast, Ironman, Powerade, Escape the Rock, Trojan Wars...we're limited to REALLY four events per year...
ONE of those MUST be an in season competition that brings the states best together. We've gotta put our egos aside to make this happen...somehow...someway!!!
I recently listened to an interview w Tony Ramos (Associate Head Coach at UNC) talking about an event in FL. He goes there to recruit the SE because states like Georgia(also has 7 classes) you can't attend the state championships to get a good gauge on athletes.
Sooo folks...stay tuned...I am trying my dang hardest to make something like this happen in 2025!!!
So. To spark some conversation...If you're hosting an event to bring together the BEST teams/individuals in the state...who can't be left off the list? How does the high school system set the kids up for failure? We moved here from Pennsylvania and I just checked our old school schedule. 7 duals and 5 tournaments. They have produced multiple D1 kids the last several years. It's not so much the number of tournaments etc it's the number of "state champs". One for each class in public schools and an additional one for VISAA. So 7 different state champions each year per weight class. And no single tournament where those individuals wrestle each other to determine who is truly a champ and who isn't. |
|
chemo
New Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by chemo on Dec 20, 2023 13:01:11 GMT -5
How does the high school system set the kids up for failure? We moved here from Pennsylvania and I just checked our old school schedule. 7 duals and 5 tournaments. They have produced multiple D1 kids the last several years. It's not so much the number of tournaments etc it's the number of "state champs". One for each class in public schools and an additional one for VISAA. So 7 different state champions each year per weight class. And no single tournament where those individuals wrestle each other to determine who is truly a champ and who isn't. But, how is that failing the kids? Are there a lot of state champs? Yes. Are there kids qualifying for states that wouldn’t in other states? Yes. But, who is hurt by that? I don’t think anyone. Are kids “failing” because of that? I would say no. Kids in Virginia are still going D1. It isn’t as many as other states, but I don’t think that is because of the number of state champs. It’s because wrestling isn’t as popular in Virginia. Most of the state champs are going to other tournaments and getting identified. NHSCAs are in Virginia Beach. There is already super-states that a lot of kids just don’t want to do. It seems like this is a solution for a problem that doesn’t really exist. |
|
|
|
Post by faded87t on Dec 20, 2023 18:18:44 GMT -5
I don't want to step into the fray about what may or may not be wrong with VA wrestling. However, it may be valuable to address the observation that there has been a large percentage reduction of VA placers at national level tournaments (BOTE as the example). When attempting to draw inferences from data, one should be highly suspect of averages - doubly so when small sample sizes are involved.
For example, by my count it was 13 (2022 placers) vs 11 (2023 placers). Admittedly this is probably incorrect, but IF correct would point to 2022 only having 18% higher production vs 40% higher as presented – less than half of the difference that is of concern. This isn’t a challenge of the numbers as cited, rather this is an illustration of how sensitive the average number of placers is to small changes at this one tournament.
In order to gain insight into an average that is so sensitive to small changes, other metrics/variables must be accounted for. For example, how many 2022 placers that are still wrestling didn’t attend BOTE 2023? By my count 3 (Colin Martin, Brycen Arbogast and Mitchell Faglioni) didn’t attend BOTE in 2023 - these 3 hammers most assuredly would have placed if they had. In fact, St. Christopher’s didn’t send any kids to BOTE in 2023, based on recent performances this one team could have had several placers. After adjusting the analysis for this one variable (making sure the same number of good kids attended both years), 2023 could have very likely produced more placers than 2022.
My point in all of this isn't to attack Mr. Olanoski (who truly is making a positive difference to VA wrestling and kids lives in general), but rather that I’m not sure a fall-off of 4 placers at BOTE tells us anything about the state of VA wrestling at a high level. Data nerd rant off :-)
|
|
